Which shellac sealant?

[JoceAndChris]

You are asking the impossible I'm afraid, because "look, this is how you do it" seems to be about personal opinion and how much time/energy is available as much as anything else!

I would recommend the method I used if you have terrific willpower and strong arms (and I know you're lucky enough to have both!) The oil sealant (3 coats), which in my case was Liberon Floor Sealer, was the stage that made the most difference to the appearance. The layers of wax (3 coats of Liberon Floor Wax) on top have just created a slight glassiness (certainly nothing approaching a French polished look), and will give the finish greater longevity - but it will need rewaxing in 6 months. As I've pointed out this is an area of low traffic, so hopefully a traditional wax finish should not wear out too quickly.

Going over and over and over the same little bit of floor for 2 weeks, it's a bit depressing really. I've just finished, so this is a bad time to get me talking about it.

Sure in a couple of weeks when it's becoming a distant memory I'll be up for the next one.

 

[Tom]

Can someone tell me the difference between Linseed Oil and the Floor Sealer that Joce used, please? What are we sealing against?

Joce, how did you apply your wax? Is it liquid? The one I've been using for the beams etc is Liberon's Liquid Beeswax, which makes it easy to apply by brush. Mind you, applying with a cloth wouldn't be difficult on the floor, as it's new and flat...not like the beams, which are old and very holey! How are you finding yours wears? I know it's newly done but does the sheen stay or does it go dull pretty quick and need buffing to regain the sheen? Oh God, I'm confusing myself even more now :?

Oh, and another question. Is a French Polished look the sort of finish that we should be aiming for? I always thought that that was just for furniture

Jaqy

 

[jocelyn plummer]

There was a fabulous wooden floor in the hallway to my childhood home ( rambling, freezing cold, Georgian Rectory) my Mother used to whizz over that floor with a kleenezee floppy mop that was impregnated with O'cedar Oil-------------lovely stuff---------

 

[JoceAndChris]

Can someone tell me the difference between Linseed Oil and the Floor Sealer that Joce used, please? What are we sealing against?

Joce, how did you apply your wax? Is it liquid? The one I've been using for the beams etc is Liberon's Liquid Beeswax, which makes it easy to apply by brush. Mind you, applying with a cloth wouldn't be difficult on the floor, as it's new and flat...not like the beams, which are old and very holey! How are you finding yours wears? I know it's newly done but does the sheen stay or does it go dull pretty quick and need buffing to regain the sheen? Oh God, I'm confusing myself even more now :?

Oh, and another question. Is a French Polished look the sort of finish that we should be aiming for? I always thought that that was just for furniture

Jaqy

You know I'm new to all this, but my very amateur thoughts are as follows.

The difference between the Liberon Floor Sealer and the Linseed Oil you have ordered is that in the Liberon product they blend the oil with a carrier. I would guess that would be some kind of spirit. I have used both pure linseed oil on wood, and also this Liberon Floor Sealer stuff and I would say that the sealer is an easier product to use. We painted it on with a paintbrush and it penetrated the wood very well indeed, not pooling, or leaving sticky residue - as Linseed Oil can do if you over apply. However you are very skilled with your hands and I'm sure with the oil you've ordered you will be able to get a nice, smooth, unsticky finish.

But then we get to buffing. Can you actually buff linseed oil to a good shine? I tried to, on my beams downstairs, but found that no matter how much I rubbed the linseed oil gave just a dull glow, not a bright, glassy finish. This is down to taste, but I like wood to be very polished, so, I applied wax on top of the oil and became much more pleased with the results.

You ask what we are sealing against. In my case, I was very concerned that if I skipped out the oil stage and just put wax on bare boards I would have the same problems I had with the music room floor. Where there's a little pit, or wormhole, or cracked grain, or raised grain, or gap between the floorboard, down the wax goes, and your flat buffing cloth does not reach it. You end up with very visible lumps of unattractive wax down in those pits and crannies. If you are just planning on using oil, without wax, this wouldn't be an issue for you. But, I don't know if you'd be happy with the sheen levels of just using oil, and the longevity of it.

If your floorboards are smooth and flat this wax slipping into the cracks and holes wouldn't happen, but mine are at least a hundred years old and I did not want to sand them smooth. I did not even want to flatten the grain or remove one smidge of that worm eaten charm.

The Liberon Floor Wax is yellow and in holey places I can see little yellow deposits. This bothers me, I intend to pick them out with a pin, or maybe even apply tiny amounts of dark wax into those holes. I did mention I'm OCD.

The wax went on as a liquid, with an old cloth. You polish it in sparingly, wait, then polish off - repeat ad infinitum. My dad invented a vertical buffing wheel roll which he attached to a drill but I just rubbed and rubbed with soft dusters and slid up and down in socks. It's a beautiful product, the coverage is again smooth and even - we found it very easy to use. I really can't comment on how it will wear, today it's very beautiful and shiny, but I only finished it yesterday!

We don't have to aim for a French Polished shininess on floors, of course not, but Toby's floors are incredibly shiny as you see in his pictures http://www.floorsanding-uk.com/GALLERY.html I wanted that level of shine, but I haven't been able to achieve it, because I haven't followed Toby's process. (through lack of understanding of that process and utter bewilderment of the products he talks about)

It's a bit like when you do your own makeup,then go and have it done by an artist - the difference takes your breath away and you realise the insufficiency of your own skill.

To conclude, I'd suggest you use a bit of your oil on one tiny section of your floor, see how you like it and how it looks in 3 months time, and in another section you use the Liberon products, maybe in another section try the Traffic Wax. I have spare of the Liberon if you'd like me to run it over.

Ultimately you have beautiful wooden floors and they're going to look great no matter what you do. In the 18th C, according to Evelyn, they didn't worry about it but sanded with sand and left them to go grey. :shock:

 

[Tom]

Joce, thank you so, so much for taking the time to write such a comprehensive reply. It's very much appreciated

Although I like the colour of my floors, I'd really rather they were a bit darker. This is why I chose oil, as it does darken the colour down. I'm very flattered that you think I have the skill to apply it without making a gloopy mess but I think before I set into it I'm going to do some tests on some offcuts I have left over. Your offer of some Liberon Floor Sealer is very much appreciated and I'd like to take you up on that. I think I'll do a test of the following;

1. Just oil
2. Oil and Wax
3. Just wax
4. Liberon Floor Sealer

I'm not in any great hurry to get this done (thank God!!), so I can do each test and leave it for a while to see what happens to it. You're right that I wouldn't be happy with a 'flat' look to the floors. Conversely, I don't want them to look like glass. Somewhere in between would be good

I'm not sure that I hold with Evelyn's view. I didn't think that Oak inside would go grey. i thought that only happens to Oak outside? Either way, I don't want a grey floor :shock:

 

[Tom]

The Liberon Floor Wax is yellow and in holey places I can see little yellow deposits. This bothers me, I intend to pick them out with a pin, or maybe even apply tiny amounts of dark wax into those holes. I did mention I'm OCD.

Joce, before you go to these lengths (I'd hate to think of you picking wax out of the floor all day :shock: ), have you tried brushing over the holes and lumps and bumps with something like a body brush? As you know, I'm applying liquid wax to extremely holey beams and, whlst it doesn't get down into the deepest holes, brushing does smooth out the wax in the more shallow ones. It's worth a try. You might not sort them all out but it may save you some time

Jaqy

 

[Toby Newell]

OMG!!! I have just contacted Rob and asked him if he would let me update both of my pieces and also to write a few more as I now have more extensive pictures of Georgian and Victorian (and some 300 year old plus) restoration and renovation jobs on floors/doors etc so I could show people every step of the process with pics. So you never know! RTight, so many points, I knew I shouldn't have left you lot alone for so long!... I will try and be brief as there are a lot of points to cover, if anyone requires particular clarification then please pm me as my new email address is now active, apologies to all those who have pm'd me in the last few months and have not received a reply, my email address was way out of date, please resend. I am very busy at the moment so you may have to be patient but restoration is not only a living for me but a passion as well as my family have been doing it for over 100 years (4 generations) right... (PLEASE do not be offended if my opinion is different to yours! I can offer a professional opinion by dint of the fact that I have been restoring wood for over 23 years, have 2 City and Guilds certificates, have studied materials engineering at University AND most importantly am very interested in the subject as I constantly, every week, research, talk to manufacturers, technical directors of companies, suppliers and reps to increase my information base and look for new products and techniques. I am a no nonsense type person and not afraid to speak my mind and have a highly advanced sense of humour (which may be too advanced for some) and I know some people are easily offended, please don't be! Everyone's opinion is just as valid as any other however experienced and I leave it to the reader to decide whose opinion to follow. I do not think my opinion is more valid or more correct than anyone elses, I just put information out there and only try and comment on what i have direct practical (sometimes many dozens or hundreds of times) experience of. Personally I like to try things out myself even if I suspect the advice is good! It's just how I am. With all of that said. Okay then...

1. Traffic wax made by SC Johnson the er 'family company' who make amongst other delightful products 'pledge' the anti-christ for polishers...
Traffic wax, paste or liquid is an easily appliable modern pseudo wax which is in reality a temporary finish. It is made with driers, fillers, parafin and polyethelyne (think Tesco's bags) and is primarily designed to be used on lino, synthetic, sealed stone or heavily sealed wood surfaces to clean, build a quick shine in commercial areas by way of mop or 17" spray buffing machine. It is certainly NOT meant for sealing unsealed wood and is probably one of the worst things you can put onto your wood and here's why.

Traffic wax, like pledge (which contains silicones) contains polymers that link after the product dries leaving a very tough and resiliant film, this is designed to be removed (by buffing machine which use a 17" diameter thick scouring pad, much like a scotch pad or dish washing sponge only industrial size) daily or weekly in commercial areas on very heavily sealed or synthetic floors and replenished with a fresh coat. This process is effectively adding an extra few microns of 'micro finish' to the 'waxed' area which is partly worn and subsequently replenished at regular intevals, this 'sacrificial' process effectively protects the underlying surface by leaving a very thin layer of polyethelene (plastic) on the floor. This is great for commercial places, including stately homes who know no better, or who do and who do not have enough money to do anything else (remember most operatives at stately homes other period buildings are normaly all round handymen and rarely have much expert knowledge on wood conservation, I have worked in quite a few!. BUT on unsealed wood, or sealed wood it is pretty much a nightmare. The problem is the product is so tenacious it will sink and fill all the little holes and intersticies the grain etc and be very hard to remove (like pledge) this is fine if your descendants/any future tennants want to go on using Traffic wax for ever. BUT when the floor gets scratched and dirty (which it will over ten years or so) how will they be able to refinish it with something else? With GREAT difficulty, stripping with solvent stripper, washing with boiling hot soda followed by boiling hot oxalic acid followed by boiling hot rinse followed by sanding may not be enough to get a future finish to stick!!! And I have tried many times. Sometiomes even sanding with a floor sanding machine will not remove the 'contamination' and I as one would be very reluctant to refinish such a floor such is the difficulty, so if you beleive in being responsible then PLEASE don't use this stuff on your wood work.

And to whoever talked about the fairy's, I am happy for you! You were only following advice but to put you straight specifically a real wax like Liberon, Mylands etc must always be applied by hand, costs no more than traffic wax and ok so the initial two coat application may take a little extra time but does not require daily Fairy assistance! I can show you pictures of 1700 sq feet of Georgian pine flooring in an old Rectory that I renovated using 3 or 4 coats of shellac (very quick to apply and dry) and two coats of wax that are still in perfect condition and still do not require rewaxing 3 years later. I am going back after Christmas to do some more work and could show you pics 3 years afterwards.

2. Oil finishes. I have nothing against oil finishes, a properly oiled bit of timber looks and feels amazing. I have EVERYTHING against lies and untruths. Modern oil finishes are the 'wash and go' of the wood finishing world and have helped to wipe out virtually the last of the TRADITIONAL French polishing and floor finishing trade in this country (now you are getting the picture!) Traditional oils look nice but take ages to apply, ages to dry and offer less even and less durable finishes, best to apply boiled linseed oil which was a primitive early attempt at producing a quicker drying finish and in reality is a sort of varnish (it has siccatives and terbene added to aid drying and is boiled to partially pre-oxidise the finish but is slightly less durable than pure linseed oil) or pure tung oil which was one of the first recorded finishes (Chinese, from nuts) I am sure the Egyptians, Carthageans and other advanced peoples also had their own finishes but the history really is only properly recorded with the Chinese using tung oil from 2000 BC. Anyhow, modern 'oil' finishes are not really oils at all, I mean they contain oil sure, but then so does varnish, they are really 'long spar' or 'tall' varnishes. Did you know the difference between a varnish and a modern oil finish can be as little as 5%??? As anyone who has applied linseed oil can testify, osmo oil et al are very different, they have driers added (like varnish) to speed up drying, stabilisers to stop the product oxidising too early in the tin (like varnish) have UV protectors built in to reduce UV degredation (like varnish) and have catalysts built in (like varnish) to aid film formation and polymerisation (time to 'touch dryness') (like varnish) so basically pepes (it always makes me smile this) even though most of you would literally turn your nose up at the mention of POLYURETHANE varnish whilst simultaneously carressing your luvverly tin of 'natural oil finish' you are infact cuddling up to almost exactly the same product. Just so you know.

Oh and environmentally? Mmm 50% solvents, er where from? hmmm, naptha, white spirits oh thats right! Fossil fuels! Hooray! How silly do you feel now you have paid the painters extra to buy that extra expensive low solvent paint that goes on horribly.... then go and happily buy your oil/hardwax oil with a skip and a jump... which contains probably double the amount of harmful solvents your paint would have done. No? Well you should, it's called green marketing and it's actually sick, tricking people to buy products and make money out of people's real desire to be responsible.

Bona's Cars oil can be bought in formulations ranging from 50% to 10% solvents ie Cars 50, Cars 60 etc. I would deduce therefore that Cars 90 with only 10% fossil fuel derived solvent would be the greenest. All the others are fairly poor and VERY SIMILAR TO BAD OLD PU VARNISH in environmental terms. French company Blanchon do a finish called Wood oil ENVIRONMENT which inexplicably has water as the emulsified solvent so I would presume it's pretty much one of the greenest finishes out there, I used it two weeks ago in Oxford and it gave very nice results, sort of super matt finish, was easy to sand and dried very quickly, I cannot vouch for the durability but I would suspect monthly mopping with wood soap and a yearly or two yearly recoat. Wear resistance I would estimate to be above that of a shellac and wax but slightly below a harder finish like Osmo's waxoil. I will definately be offering it to my customers as an alternative. Check out their website (they are all very French so sometimes thier spelling is a little off but their products are nice and call up and have a chat with Jean-Phillipe (and say Toby says hi won't you) he's very polite, friendly and helpful in a way many company reps are not. Personally even though I use solvent based products all the time by necessity, where I possibly can I use waterbased or low solvent finishes, it's not so much the green issue but more common sense and much healthier for me and my clients. (I am currently restoring two oak panelled rooms and am about to buy six gallons of solvent stripper in the morning, please someone invent a water based stripper that works!!!)

By all means use oil finishes but please be aware what you are applying is really a thinned out PU type varnish with a little extra oil after all PU is only one additive that stops the varnish from yellowing and cracking up, did you know varnish is around 40% oil??? Modern oil finishes are normally around 45% oil!!!

3. I have not got round to doing my mega gallery on my website and I feel really bad, I will do it as I aim to have the most floor restoration pictures than any other on the web, it just takes time if you are coding the site yourself! But just to inform you all wood work looks FAR MORE SHINY IN PHOTOGRAPHS its just the way a camera lens works ask a photographer, my floors are not that shiny!!! most are matt or satin soft sheen. Sometimes it looks good but is not really an accurate depiction of the sheen level. I suppose I could photoshop the sheen level down to approximate reality but somehow I think that's sort of cheating, I only crop the pics and sometimes adjust the exposure levels if they are too dark, (which is often the case and I suppose could contribute to the increased 'light reflection' appearance) even though I designed and coded my websites myself I am a complete, if not enthusiastic, amateur. Wood comes out really badly in photos especially viewed on a monitor, I can assure you my wood work looks much nicer and much less shiny in the flesh!

4. Oil and wax do not mix! Unless you wait several days/weeks before you apply a small amount of wax. Problem is oil finishes take months to fully dry and harden (like varnish...) are dissolved by terpentine/naptha/parafin/white spirit (like guess what...) and guess what? if you put a load of wax over freshly applied oil yep that's right, the solvent in the wax will soften the oil finish top layer and stop it from drying and could turn it into a horrible sticky mess, I have seen this before! What about 'hardwax oil then?' oh Jesus, why do I know so much about this, it's a curse... well 'hardwax oil ISN'T a traditional oil and traditional wax mix, oh no it is... a modern thinned out varnish type oil with extra resins (the 'wax' part) added to improve it's hardness and durability. Right I'm off for a cup of tea and a short lie down. Any other questions will have to wait.

Toby

(apologies for grammatical/spelling mistakes, I sort of semi touch type in a very bad way and with so many words cannot be asked to check everything 10 times!)

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Quite a good overview here:

http://www.buildingconservation.com/articles/woodgrain/woodgrain.htm

From the limited evidence available it seems that floor boards were either stained or scrubbed. John Wood, the architect of Georgian Bath, describes the floors of older houses coloured brown ‘with soot and small beer to hide the dirt’. One contemporary author, Hannah Glass in 1760 instructs the housemaid to first strew handfuls of damp sand over the floor before sweeping it to gather the dust, then scrubbing the boards with the herbs ‘tanzy, mint and balm’ to make them ‘look like mahogony’ and to make the room smell nice. In some houses the floorboards may have been limewashed to keep them looking clean and fresh.

In the early 19th century, fine hardwoods began to be used much more widely. Interior doors of varnished timber became fashionable in the Regency period, and as the century progressed, the use of varnish extended to toilet seats and the panelling around baths, timber staircase balustrades, shop fronts and, perhaps most commonly, flooring. Polished parquet flooring, which had first appeared in the 17th century, became common again. Floorboards of hardwood can also be found, but pine boarding predominated, usually coated with a layer of stained oil varnish where not hidden by the floor covering to resemble mahogany or other more expensive hardwoods.

 

[DaveBrigg]

Hooray!
Our lounge floor is wood, and I have been puzzling for the last three years about what would be the best treatment. The edges are dark brown, and have clearly been treated with something in the past.
A large Persian rug soon solved the problem in the middle. Now, the last two posts have put my mind totally at rest - it has had several wipes over with linseed oil, which brought up a lovely satin finish, and in the last month has also had more than a passing aquaintance with damp sand (above and below) and beer. The old ways truly are the best

 

[Toby Newell]

Well that is only one source and quite a quaint one at that! Most boards were either finished in boiled linseed oil which is really a 'varnish' as it has siccatives added to aid drying like terbene and lead and zinc compounds (traditionally) or similar or stained, normally by naturally occuring organic dyes like van dyke crystals and vegtable black and more often than not, chemical stains, like potash and ammonia, indeed to resemble more expensive woods, these were then sealed with shellac and then waxed with beeswax and later beeswax/canauba blends. Sometimes a resin like copal was added to the shellac to give more resiliance to give rise to things like copal varnish or crystal varnish, such 'varnishes' are really modified shellacks and were used since the renaissance period and indeed their formulation owes a lot to the chemistry of making new paint carriers and barrier coat varnishes for the painters of the time. Whitewashing was common in the country where oak, elm and pitch pine were commonly used but not in the town, I am not sure the herb thing was widespread! Not sure how herbs would turn any wood brown! potash, ammonia, spirits of salts, iron filings in vinegar were all used, I have read the main texts but didn't find any herbs, sounds like a nice idea though, lavender would be nice. There are many texts describing the common treatments in Libraries and in wood finishing books, I must get my polishing note books out, I may have a few nice books in there with some seriously nice recipes, I may post some, they normally involve things like vinegar, tea, brick dust etc and a lot of stirring!

As far as French polishers were concerned according to census reports they were some of the most horrendous alcoholics (including my Great Granfather who as well as being a French polisher was also Scottish so you can only guess (no offence) what he was like) so you will probably find many recipes for wood finishing involving beer and cigar ash! (like how you remove a white ring from a table top?... why with stale beer and cigar ash of course!) I am not sure the 'cover your floor with sand' was necessarily a widespread technique for tidying up! can't really see that catching on! although an old polishing technique I still sometime use today is to sprinkle water over the floor and in the air (with a sprayer) to capture the dust in very dusty sites to 'dampen down' before sweeping, but normally I hoover, perhaps that is what was meant! it would have had to be very dusty to have to resort to do that but then they didn't have hoovers did they?! very interesting all the same.

Toby

 

[Toby Newell]

Actually I read the link (er should have done that earlier, phew at least we match up! I still occasionaly use crystal and amber varnish in 6 and 8lb cuts! over £100 now a gallon so not many people use it! smells lovely though and is very sexy to brush with a zorino or squirrel mop! whichever of my polisher friends is using it will actually phone me up to tell me he is using it and gloat...it's a polishers thing) funnily enough, aprt from the quirky bit you quoted the rest is pretty much spot on! Nice peice, thanks for that.

Toby

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Well that is only one source

Indeed. As am I, and as, need I remind you, are you. "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is."

My student days were spent reading McKay and others on "best practice" in construction which bore little resemblance to what I found on site when I was finally allowed out into the real world. (Quick dash of Fairy Liquid here and there, blessed spadeful of Portland cement into the lime mortar etc). However, what happened in reality isn't necessarily the "right" way to do it anymore than the results of researchers in dusty libraries show what really happened. I admire your experience of this particular matter, but a professional life that for the last few years has had to learn to compromise where the availability of servants is concerned tends to make even me, a die-hard purist in lots of matters (see almost every post I've ever made here), think that laying down the law about what is and isn't right about what our fairly distant ancestors did and didn't do to their floorboards seem a bit of an overstepping of the mark.

The evidence is ambiguous, and a definitive answer is not to be found either in the library or in the workshop.

Edit:

Actually I read the link (er should have done that earlier, phew at least we match up!

Ok, now I take back a bit of the above...

 

[Toby Newell]

You are correct, but getting into the realms of 'what is history?' very deep. No I am sure, seeing as amtico flooring and allied carpets were yet to be invented, as was concrete, then seeing as many more of the affluent countries' dwellings and public buildings were infact finished in wood I am sure all manner of things were done to them. My Great Grandfarther used to rub horsesh*t onto oak boards as the ammonia and poo itself gave a lovely golden oak colour, I am not sure how widespread it was due to the obvious drawback (it was washed off after mind you) but I am sure it kept the flies out of the kitchen. No what you have to be careful of is quoting one source only in isolation when all the many other sources point to something different. There are patent inaccuracies in that little part as it is an isolated source, I am sure people put herbs onto the floor and into stains for good luck, many carved warding marks over the fireplace to ward off spirits but the door bit isn't perhaps totally accurate. The rest of the peice about the actual finishes is pretty good. It's just that I think the mid and late Georgian period I think were characterised more by natural finishes and varnishes or 'oil and brick dust rubbed on by a brick wrapped in felt' as Chippendale states in his Directory, than the Regency period which was quite noted for it's lacquer work, all gold and black and grained Rosewood, lots of lions... but I digress, as any good historian will tell you, everyone is correct, it's just a matter of who you wish to believe.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

To divert still further from floors, I'm reminded of Ian Bristow of paint-scrape fame saying in a lecture, "always restore to the second colour scheme you find, if you want the authentic period effect. If you go back to the first colour scheme, you'll spend a month looking at it and wondering why it's so hideous, bfore realising that in 1770 they thought exactly the same and painted over it with something they could actually live with."

 

[JoceAndChris]

Gracious, what a thrilling debate!

Toby, whilst there are some very clever people who are regular posters on this forum, and for whom phrases like "catalysts built in to aid film formation and polymerisation" are mother's milk, I suspect that a lot of people reading your very generous advice will be a bit lost. Including me.

Can I plead for an Idiot's Guide to floors? I don't mean to belittle your great craft by asking you to summarise the process and products in a a clear step by step process, and I am aware that for each floor and each owner you assess things like age, colour, patination, how much the floor will be walked on etc, and come up with the best process to match that.

For me the most useful thing would be for you to imagine you were talking to ten year olds, and to explain the products and methods for the following steps in the plainest English and shortest sentences you can muster.

1) Sand (link to specific sanding products websites you like), and a brief explanation of what products or methods you dislike.
2) Stain - again links to where to get the actual stains you use and advice on where or where not to stain. (For example, I had to stain my 80s boards in the doorway to match the 19th C ones, I ended up using medium Colron liquid wax. Do you approve? What would you use? )
3) Seal. Where to buy this shellac? How to mix? To apply?
4) Wax. Which wax to use for different scenarios?

Maybe you are unable to provide links to the specific websites and products, but without that we are lost in a sea of products we do not understand. For example, I have used Liberon Floor Sealer and Liberon Floor Wax, but I don't really know what goes into those things as they do not put it on the tin.

You say a lot against modern oil finishes, please name names, as I am none the wiser. Same goes for the hardwax oil, please name names of typical products you despise. (I've now got that you hate Traffic Wax by Johnsons and Mr Pledge).

I am delighted to read that your floors are shinier in the pictures than in real life, I'll stop wondering how you achieve that extraordinary shine now. Nevertheless you can see they've had the loving touch of a true professional.

 

[Nigel Watts]

I am reluctant to chip in at such an advanced stage on this thread but here goes anyway.

At some point (not sure what date) pine floors were painted in a thick brown gunk round the edges to disguise the gap between the carpet and the wall. The middle was left untreated. Almost anyone who took on a Victorian house before a serious pine stripper got to it will know exactly what I mean, but I have never found any literature on this. When did this practice start? What was the gunk made of?

Because Islington was a slum for most the 20th C - there was a brothel a few doors away - an unrestored house (practically none left now, of course, and most modern Isligtonians like the highly stripped back modern minimal look with their acres of brilliant white Dulux) could throw up some very interesting clues as to the original appearance. The edges of the treads on my staircase for example had been painted many times including in fake oak grain. A runner would have gone up the middle (as it does again today i am happy to report, and I have painted the edges grey).

My main pine floors had already received the stripper treatment, done hideously. I suspect that the most authentic thing I could have done for my 1840 floors was to reinstate the black gunk round the edge, but this did not appeal. My builder sanded my bedroom floor and it ended up looking dead. I stained it with Van Dyke crystals in water and waxed it, but the result is cold and flat. For my ground floor I called in Toby, and what a fabulous job he did! Careful light sanding to preserve the natural undulations and character of the floor; staining in of new boards to match the existing (quite a bit of repair was needed); building up of a rich warm colour calling on his years experience as a professional polisher; wax finish.

The floor is holding up very well in spite of my abuse (dont read the next bit Tony!) when I dropped lime plaster on it and had some lime water leak under my protective polythene. I managed to rescue these areas - which went white - using a furniture restorer's preparation of oil, meths and turps.

 

[Moo]

An old chap we used to know maintained that if polyurethane varnish had been available a century or so ago they'd never have bothered with french polishing.

 

[Tom]

Gracious, what a thrilling debate!

Thrilling? I'm more confused than ever!! :shock:

Toby, whilst there are some very clever people who are regular posters on this forum, and for whom phrases like "catalysts built in to aid film formation and polymerisation" are mother's milk, I suspect that a lot of people reading your very generous advice will be a bit lost. Including me.

And me.

Can I plead for an Idiot's Guide to floors?

Can I join Joce in pleading for an Idiot's Guide? I'm so scared to do anything with my floor, as once it's done it's kind of forever...unless I take drastic remedial action.

On this group some time ago, I was advised to use linseed oil followed by beeswax. Now it seems the two don't mix well at all :shock: It also seems that oil is a type of varnish. Does that mean it's not a traditional finish for floors? And does 'oil' include Linseed oil? I thought people had used Linseed oil for centuries! :? I'm definitely not going to use Traffic Wax. I'm currently using Liberon's Liquid Beeswax on my beams etc, so I'm familiar with the results that produces but I'm not sure whether it's suitable for floors. Liberon say it is, but Johnson's say their Traffic Wax is good too!! :? Joce has used Liberon's Floor Sealer and is happy with the result. I'm happy to use the same but I'm wary of the term 'sealer'. Can someone explain what it seals against?

In brief, I'm more confused than ever and don't mind admitting it :lol: Please, please, please can someone help? The following from Joce sums it up perfectly...

For me the most useful thing would be for you to imagine you were talking to ten year olds, and to explain the products and methods for the following steps in the plainest English and shortest sentences you can muster.

 

[Moo]

I'm definitely not going to use Traffic Wax.

In my ignorance I chose to use TrafficWax because it seemed so popular in historic houses that are open to the public (they must know about such things) and because of its non-slip properties. I'm quite prepared to use something else if I can be convinced that (a) the TrafficWax is harming my house and (b) there is an alternative that won't make the floors like skating rinks.

 

[Schoolmarm]

Moo, I think it is the fact that it is impossible to remove that is the problem. Now it is on your boards it doesn't matter unless you want it off your boards. :?



Or not. :lol: