The Green Deal

[JohnB]

Doggie and I have just come back from a walk in our wood, with our daily rucksack full of cut and split logs .

 

[skier-hughes]

I borrow a tractor, so no fuel cost for me, drag the tree up, cut by hand, split by hand. We also get deliveries from a local shed company and fence company of offcuts, etc. No cost to me, as they deliver it for free. This I cut with my circular saw, table saw, hand saw or break with my wellington booted foot!!

Going back to an earlier post, our panels are slightly shaded at times of the day due to a chimney, so we had three invertors fitted, serving 16 x 250w panels, but when some are in shade we still get a fair bit of production from the others on the same invertor, so it doesn't go down to zero.

So far max production for us at one time has been 3.56kWh Can't wait to see if we ever hit the 4kWh figure!!

 

[MdB]

<Science Pedant Mode On>

kW not kWh

<Science Pedant Mode Off>

Sorry...

(I'm going to feel rather stupid when you say the 3.56kWh was your total daily output but I think I'm safe as that would be pretty poor from 4kW of installed panels.)

 

[skier-hughes]

You are right, just over 18KWh is our maximum in a day so far, 3.56KW is max production at any one moment :wink:

 

[biffvernon]

Ours is rated at 3.98kWp and the maximum I've noticed is about 3.7 with 26kWhr in a day. Our 18 month average is 9.5kwhr/day. Curiously, the maximum seems to happen in a sky full of white fluffy clouds with very clear air between. You get light directly from the sun and more light that has been refracted as it passes through the clouds. Of course that only works until the clouds move and get in the way, so the maximum rate doesn't happen on the same day as maximum total output.

 

[Flyfisher]

Is this some species of super intelligent tree I've never come across? I didn't realise there was one that would cut bits off itself in short lengths, split, and neatly stack them :lol:.

But sometimes they do home deliveries!

It looks to me as if that tree was trying to make an architectural statement.

 

[Penners]

Not for the first time, I find myself in complete agreement with a tree.

 

[skier-hughes]

Ours is rated at 3.98kWp and the maximum I've noticed is about 3.7 with 26kWhr in a day. Our 18 month average is 9.5kwhr/day.

I don't think we are doing to badly then, as we are avergaing 7kwh/d over the 115 winter/spring days that we've had it installed so far, with our max at 18KWh

 

[biffvernon]

Back on topic, our new website:

http://www.greendeallouth.org.uk/

 

[Penners]

Well I must congratulate you, Biff, on putting together a remarkably clear and intelligible explanation of exactly what The Green Deal is and how it works.

 

[biffvernon]

Thank you. Penners, though your phrase, "how it works" may, I fear, turn out to be optimistic.

The page about an Elephant Trap, http://www.greendeallouth.org.uk/GDL21.html has been added very recently.

 

[Penners]

Fair enough! In which case I hereby modify that phrase to "how it appears that the scheme should operate, downhill with a following wind".

 

[biffvernon]

I like the caption to this picture:

While applying an insulating cladding to houses will save householders money on their energy bills the long term impact will seriously affect the visual heritage of our nation with brick facades and period features at risk of being destroyed.

http://kirstonian.posterous.com/climate-change-minister-urged-to-rethink-clad

 

[Flyfisher]

And therein lies the challenge, but there's no doubt that most period homes are woefully deficient when it comes to being energy efficient.

I wonder how long it will be before the 'popular press' starts demonising owners of carbon-guzzling old houses in the same way as mums-in-school-run-4x4s?

I realise there are good intentions behind the green deal but I do wonder about micro-management initiatives. I suppose it would be too complicated to track people's overall carbon budget and to let them decide for themselves how to achieve whatever target figures are deemed acceptable. Thus, electric blankets vs centrally heating every room in the house, wearing 'sensible' winter clothing rather than relying on tee-shirt indoor temperatures all year around, wood burning stoves vs gas boilers, holidays in the UK vs long-haul treks, etc, etc. People could then decide on personally-acceptable trade-offs without government trying to micro-manage their behaviour.

Yes, I know, pie-in-the-sky nonsense.

But then so is helping people to save money on their energy bills so they can spend it on some other energy-consuming goods or services while trying to get our economy back into continuous growth.

 

[biffvernon]

I suppose it would be too complicated to track people's overall carbon budget and to let them decide for themselves how to achieve whatever target figures are deemed acceptable.

Not at all, it would be much simpler than the Green Deal and actually work. But letting people decide for themselves what is in their best interests is not popular with politicians.

Tradable Energy Quotas (TEQs) does exactly what you suggest, Flyfisher. http://www.teqs.net/

 

[Flyfisher]

Thanks for that link Biff.

I'd read about the basic concept but didn't realise parliament had studied the idea quite so seriously.
The report looks as if it'll take a bit of time to digest though!

 

[biffvernon]

Greg Barker, climate change minister, promotes the Green Deal with the idea that one can hoover in one's knickers.
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/minister-turns-the-disco-lights-on-to-sell-eco-home-upgrades-7717618.html

 

[Feltwell]

Greg Barker, climate change minister, promotes the Green Deal with the idea that one can hoover in one's knickers.

He needs to be careful with that - men have ended up in casualty with nasty injuries and unbelieveably weak excuses as a direct result of hoovering inside one's underwear.

 

[LadyArowana]

Greg Barker, climate change minister, promotes the Green Deal with the idea that one can hoover in one's knickers.
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/minister-turns-the-disco-lights-on-to-sell-eco-home-upgrades-7717618.html

Or you can hire someone to do the cleaning and forget the knickers entirely! http://www.nakedcleaners.co.uk/

 

[LadyArowana]

Greg Barker, climate change minister, promotes the Green Deal with the idea that one can hoover in one's knickers.

He needs to be careful with that - men have ended up in casualty with nasty injuries and unbelieveably weak excuses as a direct result of hoovering inside one's underwear.