The Green Deal

[JohnB]

What, as in Fahrenheit 457? I keep an open mind. They said Man would never fly.....

Er... I think we mean Fahrenheit 451 don't we?

Using a higher temperature would make sure the job is done properly .

 

[worms]

I'm off to a conference about the Green Deal tomorrow.

It was pretty good really.

Don't tease us, tell us more!

 

[biffvernon]

The best talk was by Russell Smith of Parity Projects http://www.parityprojects.com/
He seemed to have a good grip on reality, having started off by insulating his own ordinary Victorian house to close to Passivhaus standard.
Plenty to look at on his website: http://www.parityprojects.com/

 

[Penners]

insulating his own ordinary Victorian house to close to Passivhaus standard.

But isn't this where idealism and realism clash?

I wonder what Mr Smith's insulation work cost - or would have cost an ordinary customer who didn't have their own company to carry out the work. And I wonder how long it would take for that capital cost to be paid back in reduced energy bills.

Then take the example of - say - seventy-year-old pensioners living in a 200-year-old house without double-glazing or cavity walls. They can pile plenty of insulation into the loft and do as much door and window draught-proofing as possible, at a cost which will offer a reasonable chance of a pay-back within their lifetime. But after that the whole equation starts to fall apart. Replace all their windows with double-glazing? They're never going to recoup that cost in their lifetime. Add some kind of internal or external insulation to their solid bricks walls? Ditto.

I just don't see how it's going to work.

 

[Moo]

An excellent point, Penners. These youngsters who are enthusiastically promoting Green ideas don't seem to realise that for some of us there's an economic cut-off point to be considered. Time's winged chariot and all that.


(A solar panel salesman who visited us beat a rapid retreat when we pointed out that in order to benefit from his product we'd need a life expectancy of about 120 years. And even with my genes that's a rather tall order.)

 

[Flyfisher]

I suspect the enviromentalist sentiment would be that such investments are for the benefit of our children and grandchildren.

 

[Moo]

I refer you to Penners's Californian bumper sticker.

 

[Penners]

A solar panel salesman who visited us beat a rapid retreat when we pointed out that in order to benefit from his product we'd need a life expectancy of about 120 years. And even with my genes that's a rather tall order.

For that reason I would regard it as something of a compliment if a solar panel salesman were to regard me as a prospective customer.

As it is, none has ever even approached me. I think I may know why....

 

[AMc]

My 2p - the right time to do serious insulation work which involves structural things like wall insulation is as part of a major refurbishment.
If you can bring a house to Passivhaus standards you can engineer out the heating system. That has massive implications for the running cost of the house and has a balancing effect the capital cost of the renovation - removing radiators, boilers etc. from the bill of goods makes the insulation much more affordable.

All that should be part of L1B compliance but many people seriously resent having to comply with those regulations as they stand, as they get progressively more stringent they will only become more unpopular (less popular?).

 

[middi]

I suspect the enviromentalist sentiment would be that such investments are for the benefit of our children and grandchildren.

Now, that is idealism. I totally agree with with the sentiment and totally guilty that at times I tend to act, like the rest of the civilised world, in a manner that implies " SOD THEM ". what a sad lot we are

Middi

 

[biffvernon]

I wonder what Mr Smith's insulation work cost - or would have cost an ordinary customer who didn't have their own company to carry out the work. And I wonder how long it would take for that capital cost to be paid back in reduced energy bills.
.

Actually, he did up his own house as a DIY, got his energy bill down to £50 per year and was surprised that nobody else did - so he then started the company to do similar work for others. The reason why I was impressed by is talk was that he very much addressed the various issues raised here. He was very critical of the building industry generally and was trying to show that if the Green Deal is to be any use it has to deliver real savings in a way that real people can benefit in the near future. It was all hearteningly down to earth and sensible.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

It was all hearteningly down to earth and sensible.

Well, that'll never catch on. :roll:

 

[MdB]

So far I've got my heating bill down from around £1.5k to something around £600. Next year I'm hoping to halve that again. We shall see.

 

[skier-hughes]

I've got my heating bill down to 74p a year!
This is what I buy
http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=254602360&sc_cmp=pcp_GSF_54425671

All the wood comes free, what I cut I do during the sunny weather so the pv generates the electricity for it.

Sorted.

 

[Penners]

All the wood comes free, what I cut I do during the sunny weather so the pv generates the electricity for it.

Where does the free wood come from, Graham? How is it cut down and transported?

 

[biffvernon]

If you've got some trees you just have to leave them outside in the rain and sun and they produce firewood by themselves.

 

[JohnB]

If you've got some trees you just have to leave them outside in the rain and sun and they produce firewood by themselves.

Is this some species of super intelligent tree I've never come across? I didn't realise there was one that would cut bits off itself in short lengths, split, and neatly stack them :lol:.

 

[Penners]

JohnB - you've clearly been neglecting your tree training.

 

[worms]

If you've got some trees you just have to leave them outside in the rain and sun and they produce firewood by themselves.

Is this some species of super intelligent tree I've never come across? I didn't realise there was one that would cut bits off itself in short lengths, split, and neatly stack them :lol:.

But sometimes they do home deliveries!

 

[FamilyWiggs]

I think Biff is suggetsing that we should actually cut and split our firewood by hand, thereby saving precious petrochemicals for turning into plastic windows. :shock: