The General Election Thread

[FamilyWiggs]

Come on Robin, don't be shy, tell us who you'll be voting for!

Oh, have I let the mask slip? Rats! :lol: :lol: :lol:

It's this kind of arrogance that winds me up:-

Couldn't agree more - this Parliament will go down as one of the most rotten (although in international terms it is probably fairly mundane!). Ministers as "cabs for hire" was pretty shameful too.

Thankfully we're having the biggest turnover of MPs since 1945 apparently (even without those who will lose their seats), so hopefully the new Parliament will be a much more sober and honourable one. Surely something we can all agree on?

 

[Feltwell]

Thankfully we're having the biggest turnover of MPs since 1945 apparently (even without those who will lose their seats), so hopefully the new Parliament will be a much more sober and honourable one. Surely something we can all agree on?

Absolutely!

Just don't try to convince me that it would all be OK if Maggie was in full health and still in charge. Or that cats are better than dogs. :wink:

 

[Pford75]

Just got back home from watching Chris Addison's stand-up in Norwich (it was hilarious). Chris is shall we say 'left of centre' :wink:

However, he implored everyone in the audience to get out and vote (even if that meant Conservative) for fear of the BNP increasing their share due to the general populace's disdain for politicians. He did a short Q&A session at the end of his set and was on very good form....he shared his favourite 'Tuckerism' which was cut and never made the broadcast. (completely unrepeatable )

Did a great job of poking fun in both the Conservatives (which he enjoys) but also lampooning the "limp wristed gesture politics" of the left. Great night and shows that politics can be fun

 

[biffvernon]

My grandfather was an MP in the 1945 Labour Government. Like me, he was a William Morris fan. Liked carving wood in his spare time. I inherited some nice tools from him. (Grandfather, not William Morris.)

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Respec' to Biff !

(as I understand the yoof like to say)

The big question is did he prefer cats or dogs?

 

[DaveBrigg]

From a purely personal perspective, education has improved massively under the current government. When I started work in 1990 morale was low, and it continued to fall. Vacancies were advertised without a single suitable candidate, so that many of the more challenging schools were filled with supply staff, often from the Commonwealth. Staff left because of poor pay and a lack of support, and few wanted to join the profession.
Between 1989 and 1994 we had five ministers for education, making leadership chaotic. Some schools opted out of local authority control; services which had been shared between schools, such as extra music or educational psychologists then became too expensive for those schools that were left. There were primary class sizes of 35, and the school where I started was typical of many in having some lessons taught in a portacabin. (Quaintly named a 'terrapin').
John Major's term was not quite so bad, but it has only been since 1997 that things have turned around.
Graduate recruitment has improved, fewer are leaving the profession and there are now different routes into teaching. There are far fewer shortage subjects. Exam results have improved (and in the only subject I can speak for, this is not because of easier exams!) There are no primary class sizes above 30, and a massive building programme is slowly bringing schools into the 21st century. (Maye not good from a conservation perspective, but the pupils appreciate somewhere bright, warm and designed for purpose). We have had 6 Education ministers in the last 13 years, and the current one is probably one of the best.
Extra funding has brought a widening of the curriculum, to include GNVQ's and some of our pupils learn building skills, car mechanics or health and beauty in their last two years. There have been summer schools for pupils who fall behind targets, and individual tuition after school for those in need. Schools which do badly in inspections are under far more pressure to improve, but there is extra funding if this is deemed necessary, and mentoring to support the headteacher. More pupils are going to university, which I know some disagree with, but at least they now have a chioce that wasn't there 20 years ago.
Not everything is perfect - there are still schools which do badly, still too many pupils leaving without any qualifications, but in the state sector pupils get a much better experience than they did in 1995.

 

[Nigel Watts]

Interesting observations, but have we done well enough? There is some evidence that the UK is slipping compared to other countries:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/education/article4714581.ece

 

[Moo]

From that article :

“Over the past 10 years we have seen steadily smaller class sizes and a better adult-pupil ratio thanks to our policies which see 150,000 more adults in classrooms. In 1997 there were 17 pupils per adult at primary level, now there are 12.”

Whatever happened to 'pupil-teacher ratio'?

 

[skier-hughes]

Our local primary school has a teacher and a teaching assistant per class. We have two different types of TA's, some of whom are qualified to take over a class in the temporay absence of the teacher adn some of whom are only allowed to accompany a teacher. We have other specialist teachers who come in and do one to one support with either high or low achievers, we are also a creative partnership school, so have outside specialists coming in to help teach, such as film makers, drama etc so the adult comes from the fact that they are counting everyone who spends some time in the school helping to teach the pupils, rather than the one teacher per class.

 

[Pford75]

Whatever happened to 'pupil-teacher ratio'

This is to hide the fact that not all of the 'adults' are in fact 'teachers'...as Skier-Hughes says many classes have 'teaching assistants'....(which is a way of saying "someone with no formal teaching qualifications at all".) One of the teaching assistants in my sons primary school class is a family friend...she has 3 GCSE's (all grade D), no A-Levels or any other formal qualifications.....we regard her as a good friend, but I wouldn't choose her to teach my children!

DaveBrigg's experience may be that from the perspective of teachers, education has improved. But I believe that the only real test is in the employability of those leaving the education system. As an employer myself, I am continually dismayed by the quality of applications (from graduates!) I see today. We have had 'gap year' students who can hardly string a sentence together and who cannot spell, but seem incapable of using a dictionary/spell checker.

Teachers might all feel things are going fantastically, but the evidence in the workplace would seem to indicate otherwise

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Now Pford, that's rather unfair to bring real-world evidence of outcomes to bear against the list of tractor production statistics about inputs/outputs!

My experience of state primary education in this part of N Wales is generally ok - with the only real difficuties that led us to move our sons from one school to the next being related to the quality of teaching/leadership (which could have happened under any government) and dinosaur-led LEA interference.

What concerns me is the eye-wateringly high levels of taxation I pay to get what is, in international terms, only a reasonable level of education, with no choice for the majority of parents. Is this a good deal? I don't know. As a former governor, I was certainly frustrated by lacklustre LEA control and support.

I'm quite interested in the idea of parents, charities or business setting up state schools outside of LEA control (an extension of grant-maintained statuts from the last Conservative administration) - provided that appropriate governance is in place and the impact on exisitng (failing?) schools is phased in.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

As for more kids going to university - I'm not sure of the value (and certainly it costs a lot) of sending 50% of kids to university, when the economy doesn't require 50% graduates.

Thus we seem to have created a need for lower-skilled immigration to do the jobs we're no longer prepared to do, and we have a generation of kids who delay their entry to the workplace and when they get there are frustrated to be doing reception or admin work, despite their 2nd class degree in botanical engineering with drama studies from the University of South East Humberside (formerly Lunn Poly :lol: ).

Labour seem determined in all their social engineering to create equality of outcome for all (why else would you put so many through university?). Many of us in the real world despair of this and would rather create a more competitive and selective society/economy that is based upon equality of opportunity for all rather than equality of outcome. To make life fairer does not mean making life the same.

To me that is the essential difference between the 2 parties - twas ever thus and twill ever be.

 

[Moo]

Whenever I need real depth and/or breadth of knowledge my first port of call is, of course, PPUK, so -

Where can I find annual figures for the National Debt covering the last fifty years?

 

[GeoffP]

Moo you will find a graph of the national debt since 1900 on: -

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/

Geoff

 

[Moo]

Wonderful! Thanks so much, Geoff.

xx M

 

[biffvernon]

Governments have spent more than they've taxed since the dawn of history, accumulating national debt in the process. Inflation makes it disappear painlessly so long as there is economic growth. It's when growth stops that debt becomes a problem, but then our whole financial system collapses without growth.

The trouble we face over the next several years is that oil production will decline and so long as the economy is so dependant on oil growth will become impossible. That is the first elephant entering the room that all parties are hoping nobody notices since they do not have a solution.

The next elephant, closely related to the first and it might even make it into the room first, is the shortage of electricity. There will be a gap during the coming decade. (No, don''t say we should build nukes - the first one being planned has no chance, according to the builders, of generating power before 2020.)

The big elephant coming up the rear to destroy what is left of civilization is global warming. The political parties are desperately trying to weave carpets big enough to sweep this elephant under but it will end in tears. Ed Miliband seems to be one of the few leading politicians who takes the matter in any way seriously but I don't suppose his reward will be in votes.

The sheeple are far more interested in trivia such as taxation and national service for yoofs.


Of course there are good and bad, clever and stupid, wise and frivolous people is each party, but for the sake of this silly election I'll stick with the party that traces it's origins to William Morris and many others whose values accorded with mine, rather than the party with origins in what created the mess that we have made of this planet.

 

[Nigel Watts]

William Morris was a great man but his utopian vision was hopelessly impractical. The ordinary people whose lives he wanted to see enriched were not the ones to benefit from his lofty Arts and Crafts ideals; it was rich aesthetes and successful arty types like himself - the kind of people perhaps who today would live in multi-million pound houses in Hampstead or Islington, buy organic food, drive a Prius and vote Nu Labour.

 

[Nigel Watts]

the kind of people perhaps who today would live in multi-million pound houses in Hampstead or Islington, buy organic food, drive a Prius and vote Nu Labour.

Umm ... that could almost be a description of me - apart from the Nu Labour bit of course!

 

[Penners]

few people even believe them (with the exception of Daily Express readers, who will believe anything)

Not just Express readers....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBT6OSr1TI

 

[biffvernon]

William Morris was a great man but his utopian vision was...

thwarted by the relentless greed of the capitalists who held the workers in thrall. Perhaps now that capitalism has been shown to be the planet-wrecker we should strive once again for Utopia. I'm starting with http://www.treansitiontownlouth.org.uk