The General Election Thread

[biffvernon]

I've never advocated a retreat into a romanticised mediaevalism but I have asked who would Morris vote for were he alive today. Ruskin's Seven Lamps of Architecture should be on every architecture student's reading list.

 

[Moo]

The CSA's are always better qualified than the pupils they work with

Well, that's a relief!

 

[Pford75]

I didn't notice any evidence of real world outcomes beyond an anecdotal grumble that someone who has presumably graduated with an IT qualification may not be similarly qualified in English

My complaint is that this person had an A* in English. When you give top grades out like sweeties, it lowers the average level of attainment. If this really is the 'best' that our education system is capable of producing (and I have to assume it is, as it received the maximum grade) then I really worry.

I noticed that you conveniently ignored my observations about non/under-qualified 'assistants' now teaching our children. I appreciate that your school only has qualified assistants...but that is not true of every school and it is of no comfort to those who find themselves with zero choice.

The CSA's are always better qualified than the pupils they work with

Apart from the fact that this is a frankly appalling aspiration for the level of our teaching qualifications, it is also patently not true. My 9 year old son has had spelling corrected (incorrectly), reads a wider variety of books and is more articulate (with I would suggest a larger vocabularly) than the 'assistant' in his class. She even joked that "today i've been learning all about the Battle of Hastings from your son....I didn't even know who was fighting!" :?

These adults do not plan lessons, teach the class or produce National Curriculum assessments

Wrong, wrong, wrong. It may not happen in your school and it may not be supposed to happen....but it does. regularly

FamilyWiggs has a valid point that this investment in education costs money. It is the job of governments to decide how important education is, and fund it accordingly

The UK spends 5.3% of GDP on education. This is more than Canada, Australia Netherlands, Italy, Germany(4.3%), Japan (3.6%)and many other European countries...yet our standard of education is not noticeably better...if anything it is worse. When you factor in that spending on private education is not included in this figure, the true picture of educational spending in the UK is far higher. Canada, Australia and Japan rank far higher than the UK in educational attainment measures

 

[skier-hughes]

Then you need to join your school governors and do something about it, as it should not be like you are saying.

 

[Moo]

The CSA's are always better qualified than the pupils they work with


Apart from the fact that this is a frankly appalling aspiration for the level of our teaching qualifications, it is also patently not true.

It's not new, you know. As long as twenty years ago I was dismayed at the poor standard of English that I encountered when teachers produced written reports on new projects that were being tried out. I had not anticipated having to do such wholesale editing.

 

[Nigel Watts]

It is the job of governments to decide how important education is, and fund it accordingly.

I think it is parents' responsibility, not the state's, to determine the kind of education their children should receive based on what they judge best for their individual children. The state should provide the means for all parents to do so, and oversee a light touch regularory framework, but otherwise step out of the ring.

This approach is totally anathma to the left and their paymasters in the public sector unions, who see education as something which they should control in every last detail and run primarily for their own ends rather than those of parents or children.

Michael Gove's proposal - based on the Swedish model which allows new schools to be set up independantly of the state with money following pupils - is the only one with any real promise of leading to radical improvement. I would vote Tory for this policy alone.

 

[biffvernon]

Why all this clamour for qualifications? Isn't the important thing that people are good at their jobs? I've not got so much as an O' Level in woodwork, but maybe I'm not much good at it either.

Anyway, to go off at another tangent, a certain Northern Lady has suggested I post this link, just to irritate those with strong views on class warfare, no doubt

It is very hard for the British people to make a serious choice in this election without talking about one factor above all others – class. This isn't about David Cameron's background; it's about his policies. It is a provable fact that he will redistribute wealth – substantially – but in a strange direction: from everyone in the big wide middle and bottom of British society, to the very top.

Here are the facts. He will give a £1.2bn inheritance tax cut to the richest 2 per cent in Britain – with most going to the 3,000 wealthiest estates (including his wife's). Then he promises to end the 50p top rate of tax, giving another £2.4bn to the richest 1 per cent. Then he has pledged to cut taxes on the pensions of the richest, handing another £3.2bn to the same 1 per cent. Then his marriage tax relief policies will give 13 times more to the rich than the poor. To pay for this, he will slash programmes for the middle and the skint, like the Child Trust Fund, SureStart and state schools.

more: http://johannhari.com/2010/04/09/if-youre-looking-for-class-war-you-can-find-it-in-david-camerons-policies?

She also points out that William Morris was not just a wallpaper brand, but we all know that!

 

[biffvernon]

Michael Gove's proposal - based on the Swedish model....I would vote Tory for this policy alone.

Hmmm...I see...

 

[DaveBrigg]

My complaint is that this person had an A* in English.

Aside from this being a single person, and therefore not necessarily representative of the whole country, bear in mind that the A* was gained at least five years previously. The exam result indicates ability aged 16. I got a B in History at school, but would probably not be able to repeat that now.

I noticed that you conveniently ignored my observations about non/under-qualified 'assistants' now teaching our children.

I thought I had mentioned that. However, there is a clue in the name 'assistant'. Some CSA's may work with pupils under the supervision of the class teacher, but they are NOT teachers, and no-one has claimed that they are. If your son's class has only a CSA, you need to complain.

The CSA's are always better qualified than the pupils they work with

This is not an aspiration. CSA's are NOT teachers. They are also quite badly paid, which is why there is not a queue of teaching graduates waiting to sign on. It would be nice to pay them a teacher's wage and attract CSA's with degrees in their subject, but then people would moan about taxes increasing. As a teacher, I can confirm that having an assistant in my class less qualified than myself is infinitely preferable to having no-one, as used to be the case.

These adults do not plan lessons, teach the class or produce National Curriculum assessments

Wrong, wrong, wrong. It may not happen in your school and it may not be supposed to happen....but it does. regularly

Are you sure? Have you asked at your school?

FamilyWiggs has a valid point that this investment in education costs money. It is the job of governments to decide how important education is, and fund it accordingly

All the countries that you mention also have private education. Since a large part of the education budget here is being spent undoing years of neglect of school buildings, the figure for the UK will probably start to fall in the future.

The Swedish model of parents setting up their own school may work for parents who have the skills, motivation and money, but it is hardly a solution for the country. By that logic, we should also be able to set up our own police forces, hospitals, fire brigades and armies.

 

[Nigel Watts]

Michael Gove's proposal - based on the Swedish model....I would vote Tory for this policy alone.

Hmmm...I see...

Put like that I now have two good reasons!

 

[Nigel Watts]

The Swedish model of parents setting up their own school may work for parents who have the skills, motivation and money, but it is hardly a solution for the country.

I would agree, if that was all the Swedish model was. In fact it's not just parents who can set up their own schools, it's anyone, so long as they meet certain basic criteria; a co-operative of teachers, could do so, for example.

Experience in Sweden showed that the most radical changes came not in the middle class suburbs with the most articulate parents but in the more deprived inner city areas, and its not too hard to understand why. Urban density means that there can be many different schools within reasonable travelling distance, making choice possible, and inner cities have some of the poorest performing schools and highest levels of parent dissatisfaction, hence a ready market for new entrants.

A mixed economy of provision, real choice, and money following the user of the public service rather than the whim of bureaucrats may not be a model for running the police, the army or the fire brigade as you so rightly observe but what about health? France is widely acknowledged as having the best state funded health service in Europe, if not the world. Do they run healthcare provision as a state monopoly like the NHS? Of course they don't. Theirs is based on the mixed economy model I have just described.

 

[Feltwell]

From a purely "parental" viewpoint, I have nothing but praise for the teaching assistants in my children's primary school. Their presence contributes positively without any doubt to the education and welfare of the children.

It's certainly very noticeable that in the early years teaching, they help those that have particular issues - and not just the ones who are struggling. My daughter is well ahead in her reading abilities, and one TA in particular has been helping to "stretch" her in that regard - giving her more advanced work to do and 1:1 attention to help her.

Similarly, one day not long after her Grandfather died she was very upset at school one day. A TA was able to take her away to a quiet area, spend some time with her and do some quiet reading together. Much better than my memories of school, which was that in that situation children were sent away to sit on a wooden bench outside the secretary's office, so as not to distract the rest of the class.

It's a similar argument for Community Support Officers - are they just policing on the cheap? Well, like a lot of schools this one has a parking problem, caused mostly by a minority of selfish and lazy parents who don't believe they should be expected to walk more than 10 feet :evil: It's not just a nuisance - there have been several near-misses where children have been close to being knocked down by cars.

Before CSO's came into this area, there would be a very occasional Police presence. Since CSO's, there are usually 2 of them who turn up at least once a week - a few fixed penalties has soon sent the message round, but it would soon return to chaos if they weren't turning up regularly.

 

[skier-hughes]

Whereas I am in facour of PCSO's and do a lot of work with them, ours refuses to do the school run and yesterday says they cannot issue tickets..... I'll need to investigate further if they can or not.

 

[Feltwell]

Hmmm - unless it varies by policy with police authority - our CSO has been out armed with a very offical looking notepad, writing down car details and putting tear-off notes under windscreen wipers. Could just be a warning I suppose, but certainly all the other parents have all assumed it is a fixed penalty!

Edit -according to that most wonderfully accurate of sources, Wikipedia, CSO's can issue fixed penalty notices.

 

[biffvernon]

Polly:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/10/beware-radical-tories-reality-terrifying

 

[christianb]

Polly:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/10/beware-radical-tories-reality-terrifying

Alas, I wouldn't even read Polly Toynbee's shopping list. Of all the lefty journos, she's the one I'd least like to be stuck in a lift with.

 

[Moo]

But at least she admits that:

Jobs will be lost in the public sector whoever wins: all parties pretend,

 

[biffvernon]

Avoiding inconvenient truths seems to be the zeitgeist.

 

[Moo]

Which is why so many voters think "A plague on both their houses", or words to that effect.

 

[Pford75]

laughably vague hysteria.

Given that PT herself is privately educated and owns multiple homes, it's a bit rich for her to lecture on the subject of 'fat cats'...how much is she paid again??

Come the election, the public will be more likely to vote on their own experience of the last 13 years...if NuLab are such a wonderfully progressive party and have done a fantastic job of tackling inequality, then they should have nothing to worry about. :wink: