The General Election Thread

[Feltwell]

I don't really get all this "toff" and "ordinary" people.

Neither did I until I had the misfortune to work for a "toff",who is an old Etonian and is a close friend of "Dave". This "gentleman" is an unbelieveably arrogant individual who had clearly been groomed from an early age to believe that the rest of the world was put there to serve his whims - the system he had been surrounded with has done nothing to challenge that perception, if anything it has reinforced it. Interesting to hear Gervase's comments on "Dave", as they sound very similar.

However like every other section of society there is clearly a great variety of individuals, and to tar all with the same brush is about as correct as declaring that everyone who has grown up on a council estate is a "chav" and a thief.

The Crewe and Nantwich example is a hard one to judge. I grew up living between the two towns - and they are chalk & cheese. Crewe always was old school Labour, a grimy industrial town reliant upon the railways and, perhaps a touch ironically, Rolls-Royce motor cars. Now the railways have all but gone - no loco works, no carriage works, and a station that no one changes at any more. Rolls-Royce is now just Bentley and is a shadow of it's former self.

Nantwich on the other hand is a rather posh and pretty little town, complete with half-timbered buildings - a sort of Chester in miniature - expensive to live in and very Tory, as is the surrounding area. The choice of MP was always down to who dominates in that locality, Crewe or Nantwich. The demographic in Crewe has changed considerably in recent years, as the work dried up many people moved away. The low cost of housing there and the presence of a major employment agency owned by a Polish company has in recent years led to a major influx of Eastern Europeans, who seem to live in Crewe but be bussed elsewhere in Cheshire to work. To conclude that the Tory gain is purely down to a very poor class-based Labour campaign is an over-simplification of what has happened in that area.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

. Cameron's speech yesterday (convened before Brown had even left Buckingham Palace) showed him surrounded by adoring members of the public, all of whom happened to be either Conservative candidates or party workers.

Point of fact Gervase (and they're getting thin on the ground already!), Cameron's speech was billed as to "activists and candidates"; whilst Brown was bumping into members of the public at the station (President of the NUS and key Labour Youth and Students folk who just happened there) and pre-vetted workers in a supermarket canteen who weren't allowed to ask the questions they wanted about bankers and immigration.

Brown's minders will not allow him to meet ordinry voters because he can't do "human" and they're terrified of awkward questions. Contrast this with Cameron (and Clegg) who have been doing open-door town hall meetings with hostile questions a couple of nights a week for the past couple of years.

Say what you like about Posh Dave - but he is the one with the ordinary touch and real communication skills, not lists of tractor production stats and blame shifting. Just wait for the debates!

On C&N, Feltwell, I'm not saying the gain was down to the class-based campaign (it was a verdict on the Labour government more I think); I was just pointing out that a toff-based class war campaign had bombed badly.

 

[Feltwell]

Well, it's all getting very active here isn't it! Whatever their politcial affiliations, the one thing I cannot abide in any candidate is arrogance. Damn, that leaves precious few to consider really, doesn't it?

FW, I don't believe anyone can say with any degree of certainty that Crewe & Nantwich was a verdict on the party in power at the time. It may have been, but that area has seen so much change and is (and always has been) so markedly different in the 2 main population centres that make it up, that it could equally just be down to a demographic shift.

Now, for God's sake no one re-start the debate on if cats or dogs are better, or we'll have a virtual riot on our hands......

 

[Penners]

Frankly, class-war arguments come plumb at the bottom of the list of criteria by which I shall make my voting decision. The idea that we should judge a potential future Prime Minister on the basis of the school he attended, or the wealth of his background, is simply a desperate, bankrupt electioneering ploy.

But, to be honest, I am old enough and cynical enough to regard any and all electoral arguments and promises, by all parties, as just so much mendacious hot air.

I suspect that shall make my mark on the ballot paper on the basis of one simplistic principle only. I've had 13 years' experience of Blair's/Brown's New Labour and - to generalise on a thousand particulars - I find their record atrocious. I've had no experience of David Cameron's Conservatives, so I'm prepared to give them a chance to demonstrate that they can make a better fist of governing this country than the current mob. They certainly couldn't make a worse one.

 

[Gervase]

To be frank, I don't want a prime minister with the 'ordinary touch' and a glibness with sound bites. I'd rather have someone dour who can actually do the job - a job which is nothing to do with touchy-feely stuff and a lot to do with boring stuff like economics and even neo-endogenous growth theory and who can do stuff like this.

 

[JohnB]

Now, for God's sake no one re-start the debate on if cats or dogs are better, or we'll have a virtual riot on our hands......

Dogs of course. How can anyone say otherwise :wink:

If there was a Green candidate I'd vote Green, but I'm voting Plaid Cymru to try to minimise the the number of both Tory and Labour MPs. After another month of a campaign that's already been going on for months, I might be so fed up though, that I'll stay in bed on polling day :evil:

 

[Moo]

... people complaining ... that schools are under-resourced.

Surely you mean that people are complaining that schools are under-achieving, in spite of the fact that:

... the current government ... has lavished unprecedented amounts of money on health and education.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

To be frank, I don't want a prime minister with the 'ordinary touch' and a glibness with sound bites. I'd rather have someone dour who can actually do the job - a job which is nothing to do with touchy-feely stuff and a lot to do with boring stuff like economics and even neo-endogenous growth theory and who can do stuff like this.

A pity he pre-announced selling our gold (and against Treasury advice we now learn) at the bottom of the market, costing us billions.

A pity he wrecked one of the best pension systems in the world, again against advice.

A pity he didn't put any money away in the good times and taxed & spent to the limit - our grandchildren will still be paying off our eyewatering debt and deficit;

A pity he cut the Defence budget in times of war, and under-resourced troops on active duty.

A pity he equates cutting waste in the public sector with taking billions out of the economy and putting the recovery at risk.

A pity he argues we have to continue that waste for another year, and covers it with yet more tax rises.

A pity he accused nearly every senior business leader in the country of being "deceived" by Conservative proposals not to proceed with the NI jobs tax.

A pity he lied about all this and all the above on a regular basis.

A pity he can't bring himself to actually apologise when caught out lying to Chilcott.

I agree Gervase - I'd much rather have a PM who is upto the job. Sadly, the dour chap you refer to has been easily the most ill-suited to the job in modern history. He is such a "team player" that his own side has had three coup attempts in the past year, and he had to bring back Mandelson as his enforcer. He is a disaster and he, and we, know it. I actually pity him for that - to discover you're not up to the job you have coveted and schemed for all your life must be devastating.

You could try to argue for a 4th Labour term on a few fronts - 5 more years of Gordon Brown simply isn't one of them!

Peace and love to everyone on PPUK before this gets too heated except for those dastardly dog-lovers. Cats rule!

I've now searched the Liberal's website too and again come up with nothing signicant on period properties. UKIP, Green and (god forbid) the BNP to go.

 

[philpjuk100]

]

 

[Gervase]

It might be a posh name in England, but for someone of bog-trotting Irish Catholic stock, it's pretty prosaic.

 

[Penners]

Peace and love to everyone on PPUK before this gets too heated except for those dastardly dog-lovers. Cats rule!

OK - that's your name down in my little book. And don't ask what will happen.... you don't want to know.

 

[Penners]

How can somone who answers to"Gervase" criticise people for having double-barreled names?

That's a cheap, irrelevant, personal slight. Politicians are fair game, and set themselves up as such. PPUK contributors are not.

 

[philpjuk100]

Watch it Penners your next!.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

How can somone who answers to"Gervase" criticise people for having double-barreled names?

That's a cheap, irrelevant, personal slight. Politicians are fair game, and set themselves up as such. PPUK contributors are not.

I agree. Phil - I enjoy your posts on PPUK, but I don't think this is one of your finest. (Trust me, I am an expert in these things! )

 

[philpjuk100]

OK Ill "zap it! and remain off the forum until the"open season" for those blessed with the hyphen is over!

 

[Gervase]

A pity...

What an extraordinary list of half-truths, untruths and spin. I suppose it's typical of the twaddle we'll be seeing from all the parties in the next few weeks. My own experience of such tirades is that no-one gets 'converted' by them, and few people even believe them (with the exception of Daily Express readers, who will believe anything), but they're useful for reinforcing entrenched positions and rallying the troops.
I think we'll just have to agree to differ, though the prospect of five years of 'Dave' and his gang does rather fill me with dread.
And I honestly couldn't give a monkey's about any perceived name calling - no offence taken. If there's any blame to be cast, chuck it at my parents, who gave me the name in the first place (my father was a dyed-in-the-wool Tory though :wink: ).

 

[philpjuk100]

.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

my father was a dyed-in-the-wool Tory though.

Ah - there's hope for you yet!! :wink:

 

[Feltwell]

Come on Robin, don't be shy, tell us who you'll be voting for!

It's this kind of arrogance that winds me up:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8521510.stm

My mother-in-law, who lives in his constituency and is a Tory through-and-through, once witnessed his wife complaining bitterly in an NHS waiting room that she was "far too busy to be expected to wait". I think for busy, you could substitute "self-important". I know the message he was trying to get across, but the way it was phrased was appalling.

Mind you, nothing beats Anthony Steen and his expenses outburst - after claiming £87k over 4 years, he then has the front to tell the public that he lives in a "very very large house that looks like Balmoral" and we're all just jealous. My guess is that his career prior to being an MP wasn't in PR!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/8062447.stm

 

[Nigel Watts]

I'd rather have someone dour who can actually do the job - a job which is nothing to do with touchy-feely stuff and a lot to do with boring stuff like economics

I dont disagree with this sentiment, but a man who claims one minute to have abolished the economic cycle then to go on to preside over the most spectacular boom and bust in living memory is not someone I would place in the category of capable of doing the job. The truth is that Brown's most successful years as Chancellor were in the first Blair term when he was sticking rigidy to the spending plans of the Major administration. These were drawn up by none other than Kenneth Clark, who will be a key member of any future Tory Government. Now that I think about it George Osbourne (a.k.a. the oik) is a bit on the dour side. Your man, I think.