The bad stuff

[skier-hughes]

IME logic is the first casualty of right-wing thought.

:?:

Logic says don't blame the police for a report from the IPCC, don't blame the police for an article written by the Sun, and it also says don't blame everyone for one or two bad apples, so don't blame all young people and don't blame all police officers.

 

[biffvernon]

A strawman argument. Nobody is blaming all young people or policemen. All the young people and policemen I know are fine people.

 

[biffvernon]

Observations and suggestions from The Georgian Group.

 

[skier-hughes]

So surely you should be blaming the sun, news international and rupert murdoch,

Of course, but here's the thing,

Met’s PR chief put on leave after allegation of gross misconduct

Director faces IPCC investigation after criticism over NOTW staff links
The chief of PR at the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) has been put on extended leave as he faces an allegation of gross misconduct believed to be related to the News of the World hacking scandal.

Dick Fedorcio, director of public affairs and internal communication for the Met, was criticised in a government select committee last month for hiring Neil Wallis, a former NOTW journalist, as a media consultant.

when it comes to police communicating with the public the relationship with the Murdoch press is a tangled web.

 

[biffvernon]

Yes, that's what I said. Glad you thought it worth repeating

Here's what someone else said:

THE RIOTERS PRAYER

Our father, who art in prison,
My mum knows not his name,
Thy Riots come, read it in the Sun,
In Birmingham, as it is in London,
Give us this day our Welfare bread & forgive us our looting, as we're happy to loot those who defend stuff against us,
Lead us not into employment but deliver us free housing,
For thine is the teles, the Burberry & the Barcardi, forever and ever...
Innit !!!!

 

[robgil]

The police dont just kill gangsters and dangerous criminals , smiley culture was supposed to stab himself in the heart whilst making a cup of tea during a raid on his home.
How can you stab your self in the heart whilst making a cup of tea?

 

[Flyfisher]

I've no idea, but given the number of cups of tea I make each day I'm going to be even more careful in future.

 

[robgil]

I've no idea, but given the number of cups of tea I make each day I'm going to be even more careful in future.

Ha, I know what you mean , I've quit caffeine and now drinking c affine free coffee, I may as well stab my self , it would stimulate me more.

 

[skier-hughes]

Perhaps if you re-read it then Biff you'd see I was not being a strawman, just trying to bring some logic to others arguements, and allow you to see the error in your postings.

 

[Flyfisher]

Perhaps we're all too close to the issues and what we need is a bit of perspective from afar.
How about this for a start: http://m.ocregister.com/opinion/london-311857-want-book.html
:wink:

 

[biffvernon]

don't blame all young people and don't blame all police officers.

Nobody is blaming all young people and nobody is blaming all police officers. To attack what you imply is somebody's point when that point was never made is a strawman argument.

 

[biffvernon]

Perhaps we're all too close to the issues and what we need is a bit of perspective from afar.
How about this for a start: http://m.ocregister.com/opinion/london-311857-want-book.html
:wink:

I think that guy is just a bit too far off.

 

[LadyArowana]

Distance sometimes provides a better perspective on the picture.

 

[skier-hughes]

No Biff, I was countering the points you made that the police were giving misinformation etc, and that they were giving this to the public, when it was the IPCC and the Sun who you should have been targeting.
Then you brush this aside with a comment that the police are caught up in a tangled web, when it "may be" just the very odd one or two. Who may have in fact not been, as there are only allegations and criticism, so much for innocent until proven guilty!!
Lime then said logic goes out of the window.

 

[biffvernon]

It "may be" just the very odd one or two but they appear to the the Chief Constable, his Deputy and the head of PR. Two resigned and one is suspended. The trouble is that many people believe that is it not just the odd one or three. And they might be right.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

All the young people and policemen I know are fine people.

and

The trouble is that many people believe that is it not just the odd one or three. And they might be right.

Biff, I may not be the only one having trouble keeping up with your spinning positions on this or strawmen arguments as Graham points out.

Will the real Biff Vernon please step forward? :wink:

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Recent events were looting rather than rioting.
Rioting used to be an English national pastime, with only the slightest cause (there were, for example, riots in Lincoln when it was first proposed to remove the spires from the west front of the cathedral about 1805 - I must admire the conservationist stance). Paxman gives a quite hilarious list of causes of rioting in his "The English" (recommended), but it seems we can't even do rioting properly any more.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

It wasn't even proper looting... given the way products were selected (and even tried on prior to removal from the premises), it was simply shopping with violence.

 

[biffvernon]

All the young people and policemen I know are fine people.

and

The trouble is that many people believe that is it not just the odd one or three. And they might be right.

Biff, I may not be the only one having trouble keeping up

What's your problem? Both of those statements are true.

 

[middi]

There appears to be an uncomfortable feeling that financial institutions, governments in power , police force the media and even the army, are drifting away from that moral high ground required which is absolutely necessary for the wellfare of a democratic society . A gradual rot is gripping the system fuelled by self interest in the form of sweeping the dirt under the carpet, ticking the right boxes to comply as directed by the system with less chance of blaming each other for inefficiency or care.

As Biff earlier suggestion ...it takes all sorts...., at present we do not appear to have a leading politician that can grab the bull by it's horns with enough conviction and belief to make that difference . Appeasemed culture and no boat rocking is the trend that appears to be the status quo.
We have to wait for discontent within society prompted in forms such as collapse of a banking systems, riots, media's manipulation of the true ( and politicians !!!) etc.., at which point the carpet has to be lifted and the dirt exposed then some poor sod will get blamed because he/she forgot to tick the box ( or directed no to do so by the peson who's responsability was to tick the box in the first place but difficult to prove).

I am sure the nature of politics has never changed, nevertheless, for a County like England to appoint some " foreigner" from America to solve our social problems is an indication that it may be loosing the plot. Imported American culture trend. Will that be better ???.
I hope that it is more succesfull than appointing my countryman ( Fabio Capello) with that Italian football mentality and culture which he tried to apply to English football game.
Is the Motto " we do not have answers " but we will tick that box which asks " action taken to solve problem" and if or when failure is aknowledged by society the response is surely " not our faut gov, we did our best under the circumstances"

No, once again, I do not have the answer, but like many of you I don't get paid to have answers we are just asked to pay taxes and keep people in power that reassures us that they have. This gives us the right to winge :wink:

Human nature, we are stuck with it and just hope it evolves in the right direction for everybody's benefit.

Middi