Rewiring Costs

[Lime]

I caught the tail-end of a childrens' TV programme a couple of days ago.
The small energy efficient lamps were the subject of the programme and the children were going around businesses to see how energy economies could be made.

One of the "savings" was that all the fluorescent lights in a factory should be replaced with these little bulbs.

Aren't fluorescent lights (4, 5, 6ft etc) the same as these little bulbs?
I have noticed that several shops locally have done the same thing, so that where there was once a fluorescent lamp five foot long there are now several litlle bulbs in it's place.

Isn't this absolute madness?

 

[AMc]

"Isn't this absolute madness?"

Yes - A Compact Fluorescent Bulb is just a fluorescent tube that's been bent around a bit to fit in the same space as an incandesant one!

This month's Homebuilding & Renovation magazine has an interesting article on low energy lighting

Part L Building Regulations requires that 50% of the light fittings in circulation rooms (lounge, kitchen, etc.) are low-energy fittings, so that we can’t switch back to high-energy bulbs as soon as the inspector has left the building. These are typically four-pin, PL-type lamps which are Brated on the Government’s energy-efficiency scale. Bayonet cap or Edison screw CFLs are A-rated but fit to standard fittings and are, therefore, not compliant. Part Lcompliant fittings are far more expensive — around £17 each compared to £2.50 for a standard fitting.

You need a subscription to read it, but the full article is here...
http://www.homebuilding.co.uk/Design.Features.asp?Action=View&ID=258

I assume they mean Part L1B (?) which refers to new residential not refurbishment but this seems totally ridiculous to me.

 

[plumbers mate]

Low energy bulbs can't be used with dimmer switches so farewell those romantic evenings with low lighting (or back to putting a red sock over the light as happened back in the 1960s)

I have had energy savingbulbs on the landing and in the passage of my house for years now - as they don't last that much longer than proper bulbs if they are switched on and off a lot, they were left on. That way, one lasted for 5 years - five years. But I spent more in power. The one in the passage downstairs lasted almost a year because it wasn't left on 24/7.

I now have one in the bathroom so tend to make use of the street light outside shining in, or else make do with light coming in from the landing in an effort not to use the bulb for brief periods of time. I couldn't have such a cold and unpleasant light in the living room though - it's not a nice light, so I'll have to start stockpiling bulbs (and I suspect I won't be alone).

I have a clear conscience - I do not and never have owned a car and have only flown once (twice if you count the return trip)

 

[MdB]

Isn't this absolute madness?

If that was the case then yes.

Yes - A Compact Fluorescent Bulb is just a fluorescent tube that's been bent around a bit to fit in the same space as an incandesant one!

In general terms yes, however the drive details are different I believe.

I assume they mean Part L1B (?) which refers to new residential not refurbishment but this seems totally ridiculous to me.

Yes it is just for new build and yes it is inforced. Our local BC has been a bit of a pain over it. I guess that now there is a demand the prices should start to come down.

Low energy bulbs can't be used with dimmer switches so farewell those romantic evenings with low lighting.

Apart from the types that can be dimmed (though only over 4 levels).

Top tip. When buying low energy bulbs, go for the spiral type as they seem to perform better than the cheaper ones. Instant on (no delay or flicker at all), starting brightness is good (though they do take a few minutes to get to full brightness) and I like their colour although I guess this is down to personal taste.

 

[plumbers mate]

I've bookmarked that link to the dimmable bulb - thanks - although at almost £10 each and I need 3 in the living room they are a bit pricier than the ordinary bulbs from Wilkinsons!
And I'll have to change the light switch - or, heaven forfend, will I have to pay a sparky to do it? I put the dimmer on in the first place.
Hmm.... Seems like stockpiling Wilkos 40watt bulbs is a good plan......

 

[Me!]

I couldn't have such a cold and unpleasant light in the living room though - it's not a nice light

For years I would have agreed with you completely. However, about a year ago I found some Phillips compact fluorescent bulbs which have a very nice, slightly yellow light colour. They are the cheap design with the 3 or 4 U tubes depending on the power output, and when I bought them from Morrisons they were on a special offer with two for £1. Unfortunately, my local Morrisons doesn't sell them any more, but I have seen them recently in Homebase but for more money.
I have no connection with either Phillips or the lighting industry, and I was a complete sceptic before I tried these bulbs, but I now have them virtually everywhere in the house.

 

[AMc]

These claim to be really dimable but I haven't found a supplier yet - I have 4 dimmed wall lights in the lounge.
http://www.osram.com/products/general/compact/professionals/duluxel_specialities.html#duluxeldim

There are now different colour temperature bulbs available - the warm variants are much nicer and more bulblike. The more expensive bulbs are recommended by the Energy Saving Trust as being 'better' than cheap bulbs (same article but fails to qualify 'better').

Switching them on and off for short periods does seem to reduce the lifespan - but the same is true for Tungesten filament lamps in my experience just they're cheaper so it hurts less when they pop.

BTW the reduced power consumption will pay the difference in purchase price even if the bulb doesn't last for the quoted 8000 hours. Which would you buy: a car for £500 that did 3mpg or one for £5000 that did 30mpg?

 

[plumbers mate]

>> Which would you buy: a car for £500 that did 3mpg or one for £5000 that did 30mpg?

To be 100% honest - neither. I just wouldn't ever buy a car - I don't drive and have no wish to ever do so.

 

[Moo]

I think that AMc was just using the car example to illustrate a point about running costs in general, not making enquiries about our individual transport tastes.

 

[Nemesis]

I suspect PM was simply being polite and responding to what may have been rhetoric or could, alternatively, be construed as a personal enquiry.

 

[Flyfisher]

> This article is quite illuminating

Unfortunately it is too riddled with errors to be of much value.

Surely it would be of more value to actually point out the errors?

 

[Flyfisher]

It's a pity so much time and energy (pun intended) is spent shooting down strategies to slow down global warming and so little is expending on working on better solutions to the problem.

Surely any strategy worth pursuing should be able to withstand criticism? If it can't then perhaps it's not a good enough strategy.

Or should we just blindly follow the 'green leaders' and/or the government and mindlessly do whatever they say without daring to question anything?

 

[Flyfisher]

BTW the reduced power consumption will pay the difference in purchase price even if the bulb doesn't last for the quoted 8000 hours.

True or false, is this actually relevant? I thought the whole point was to save the planet by reducing energy consumption, not our personal electricity bill.

Only by knowing the complete life-cycle costs can we know whether product A uses less energy than product B. For all I know, a filament lamp made in a factory up the road will consume less energy in its lifetime than a compact fluorescent lamp made in China and airfreighted to the UK.

So, yes, I'll buy cheap CFL's (89p at tesco) and hopefully reduce my electricity bill - but how can I be sure this is really the best thing for the planet?

 

[Lime]

- but how can I be sure this is really the best thing for the planet?

That is a problem that has not been answered in my view.
I have read much about these little lamps but have never read the breakdown of the total pollution and "carbon footprint" of the many components within the base...... a base that is thrown away when the lamp is unable to operate unlike an ordinary fluorescent.
What I have read about the components is a total dismissal of their environmental impact usually coupled with a disparaging comment about incandescents.

I have a natural dislike of things being thrust upon me for my own good (so called) without good reasons being given.
If these lamps are such an improvement then I would have expected many detailed and well-publicised scientific breakdowns of their manufacture.
I have never seen any such breakdown that could withstand scientific scutiny.


There does seem to be an almost fascist attitude taken to questions about eco solutions which, once again in my view, does them no credit at all.

Personally, I firmly believe that it is the Sun that is changing our world, just as it has done since the beginning, and has nothing whatever to do with carbon dioxide.
Carbon dioxide is liberated from the oceans as the temperature of the world increases, not the other way round.

However, just in case anyone wishes to start criticizing me for "not doing enough", I have had these little bulbs throughout my house for nearly a decade and I was pushing a "green" agenda via the Green Party from the early 80s.
So there is little that I am not aware of.
I wonder how many more people have been born in the world while you have been reading this post?
In my opinion that is what we should all be worried about.

 

[CHRIS]

Just a quick pointer on the lightbulb issue, my Dad moved lock stock and barrel to New Zealand 6 weeks ago from East London and he has moved into a 1930s Timber bungalow which was built by my Grandfather, It has not been touched since and is in need of some TLC (insulation for one thing) so they had a local Architect over to talk about making it much more energy efficient and adding an extension on and the topic of light bulbs came up, in NZ as you know they are very hot on any form of waste or energy saving ideas and they are of the impression that as most of these new lightbulbs come from China and the factories making these things are some of the nastest ones around with polution etc they are thinking of stopping imports of them. It sounds like this is the hot topic of conversation over there as well.

 

[Moo]

Dear Chris,
I am putting this in small type, to demonstrate my humility and to reassure everyone that I am not writing this just out of pedantry. But although I thought your last message was very interesting, I also found it rather difficult to read. In fact I was quite breathless by the time I got to the end.
Do you think that, in future, you could use shorter sentences so that I would know where to draw breath? (I got my computer to do a word count and discovered that you had written a sentence of 104 words, with only one comma.)
I'm sure that no-one else had a problem, but I'm a bit dim and need all the help I can get.

 

[Nemesis]

Try reading it silently, and not out loud, that way you won't get breathless.

You could even read it twice, once you get the gist you can put in as many pauses as you require.

Oh come on Moo. Stop it. This is simply an embarrassment - people will stop posting here if you continue to treat them like this.

 

[Moo]

That's exactly what I was expecting. And why I used very small type. And why I tried to make it clear that my problem is unique to me.

However, point taken. In future I will make such requests by private message.

 

[Nemesis]

Well don't send me one or I will tell you where you can go - as indeed I suspect many others will also who will receive them. I also suspect they will post questions elsewhere once having had wrists slapped, or simply dismiss period property owners as being toffee nosed and install uPVC windows out of spite.


Stop making people feel like naughty children, its simply awful.

 

[Moo]

I consider my wrists well and truly (but not unexpectedly) slapped.

And as for sending you a private message !! The very idea of such temerity makes me come over quite faint.