jocelyn plummer
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Hoorah, may the dirt be dished where it rightfully belongs.
- Thread starter Pford75
- Start date
Penners
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We aim never to disappoint.Pford75 said:
Penners
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MdB said:
£499,950 (ditto)
Penners
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Yes, unless you want to buy me off. Say £50k?
skier-hughes
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Nah,
£1,500,000, split 80. 10. 10 to me and you both do the work :wink:
£1,500,000, split 80. 10. 10 to me and you both do the work :wink:
Penners
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Nurse!
Graham's out of his room again.
Graham's out of his room again.
Much as I hate to interrupt your hallucinations :wink:
This does raise a couple of serious points (yes really). Insurance companies will typically require a minimum of 3 quotes for work and for very large claims, may require 5 or more quotes.
1. When any of us decides to employ a craftsman, builder or trade...we are all told the importance of references, of trade associations and of ensuring that the job you are commissioning is going to be quality. An insurer doesn't seek to satisfy any of these concerns....they just want the lowest price.
2. For large or complex jobs or those requiring scarce skills....properties in remote locations can struggle to collect the required number of quotes. (I know this from previous experience....we employed a surveyor to handle a tender process, they issued 11 tenders, but only 2 companies responded and one of those couldn't start for 5 months)
So, how to best approach this issue with the insurer? (not just in my situation, but anyone pursuing a major claim). At the moment, my strategy is as follows:
1. Emphasise to the insurer that I am happy with a contractor I trust...anyone else will neccessitate the need for a full set of drawings and tender documents...which could wipe out any saving on a cheaper quote
2. Enlist the support of the CO, who cannot exclude certain companies, but who can emphasise the need for skilled people and the cost should the work not meet the required standard
3. Solicit quotes from the trusted tradesmen and then invite the insurers to find alternatives (why should I chase builders around the county for quotes?)
Whilst I could never recommend it, I can entirely understand why one builder I know confirmed that he and some other local firms often discuss larger jobs and agree to issue separate tenders....knowing who is likely to win and at what price. Seems like a ridiculous state of affairs really.
This does raise a couple of serious points (yes really). Insurance companies will typically require a minimum of 3 quotes for work and for very large claims, may require 5 or more quotes.
1. When any of us decides to employ a craftsman, builder or trade...we are all told the importance of references, of trade associations and of ensuring that the job you are commissioning is going to be quality. An insurer doesn't seek to satisfy any of these concerns....they just want the lowest price.
2. For large or complex jobs or those requiring scarce skills....properties in remote locations can struggle to collect the required number of quotes. (I know this from previous experience....we employed a surveyor to handle a tender process, they issued 11 tenders, but only 2 companies responded and one of those couldn't start for 5 months)
So, how to best approach this issue with the insurer? (not just in my situation, but anyone pursuing a major claim). At the moment, my strategy is as follows:
1. Emphasise to the insurer that I am happy with a contractor I trust...anyone else will neccessitate the need for a full set of drawings and tender documents...which could wipe out any saving on a cheaper quote
2. Enlist the support of the CO, who cannot exclude certain companies, but who can emphasise the need for skilled people and the cost should the work not meet the required standard
3. Solicit quotes from the trusted tradesmen and then invite the insurers to find alternatives (why should I chase builders around the county for quotes?)
Whilst I could never recommend it, I can entirely understand why one builder I know confirmed that he and some other local firms often discuss larger jobs and agree to issue separate tenders....knowing who is likely to win and at what price. Seems like a ridiculous state of affairs really.
Penners
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Actually, I suggest that this is even more of a problem with small jobs. It's a real problem finding builders who are prepared to haul out here into the hinterland of the Box River basin, to carry out jobs that only take a couple of days.Pford75 said:
Quick update.....the loss adjusters for the claim have approved the quote. 
They were not the same adjusters as for the previous claim on another section of wall and seemed to be much more used to dealing with claims of this nature. They had requested 3 quotes, but after I had invited 2 additional large local builders who both declined to quote (on the basis that they did not deal with lime or flint)...the loss adjuster simply asked me to provide the details of the builders who had declined to quote and then eventually approved the work on the basis of the single quote I was able to get.
Seems like a much more pragmatic way forward.
No work until Spring next year though.
They were not the same adjusters as for the previous claim on another section of wall and seemed to be much more used to dealing with claims of this nature. They had requested 3 quotes, but after I had invited 2 additional large local builders who both declined to quote (on the basis that they did not deal with lime or flint)...the loss adjuster simply asked me to provide the details of the builders who had declined to quote and then eventually approved the work on the basis of the single quote I was able to get.
Seems like a much more pragmatic way forward.
No work until Spring next year though.
plumbers mate
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It's not just rural or isolated locations where there is a problem getting quotes. For my chimney breast job I phoned 26 builders, 18 came to look at the job and I recieved 5 (five) quotes. Two were so high it was obvious they didn't want the job. It took 14 weeks to find someone. This in an urban conurbation with pages and pages of Builders in Yellow Pages. Getting several quotes quickly could be a dream whether the Insurance people demand it or not.
Lime
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My experience of builders in a small rural town is much the same.
When I had my roof re-slated 6 or 7 years ago there were flat-roof roofers aplenty but not slate.
I was lucky to find a roofer who wanted to do it.
My wife, who has always lived around here, recommended them to me.
They weren't the roofers who, just 2 years before, roofed a neighbour's house almost identical to mine.
They charged her over £8000 for new concrete tiles and did her the favour of taking away all the old slates.
My roofer did my roof with reclaimed slate for £3000.
Talking to the old boss while the job was underway, discussing workmanship, he claimed it was difficult to get anyone to work these days let alone get them with skills.
When I had my roof re-slated 6 or 7 years ago there were flat-roof roofers aplenty but not slate.
I was lucky to find a roofer who wanted to do it.
My wife, who has always lived around here, recommended them to me.
They weren't the roofers who, just 2 years before, roofed a neighbour's house almost identical to mine.
They charged her over £8000 for new concrete tiles and did her the favour of taking away all the old slates.
My roofer did my roof with reclaimed slate for £3000.
Talking to the old boss while the job was underway, discussing workmanship, he claimed it was difficult to get anyone to work these days let alone get them with skills.
Gareth Hughes
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Lime said:
Which is why you should always have a lump hammer handy. It should be ensured that any material that the builder carefully stacks up to remove from site, if they aren't knocking an allowance for "salvaged materials" off their bill, does not leave the site in reusable condition.
Penners
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Pford75 said:
Hoorah! A considerable relief for you to have that settled. Now you'll just have to patient until the Spring!
[Moderated] to insurers :evil:
Have had formal written confirmation from my insurers that they are ignoring the advice of their own loss adjuster (who they appointed and who recommended settlement of my wall claim) and will not be paying a penny on the basis that they feel the collapse of the wall was due to a 'gradually operating cause' rather than 'flood'.
Have taken some advice from my brokers and regrettably, they feel that the ombudsman would side with the insurers....since the wall was subject to continuous soaking over a period of several months (although there was nothing I could do to prevent it).
So having first discussed the matter with my CO (thankyou for your advice and tolerating my 'rant')...I have now instructed my solicitor (Birketts in Norwich) and he is writing a final demand for payment to both the developer and County Council, together with an offer to go to abitration....if they decline either of these options, then sadly court is my only option.
Having had lots of dealings with my insurers recently...I feel this too is worth bringing to the forums attn. Something like this which occurs 'gradually' will often not be covered. I should have realised this, but was keen to resolve the drainage matter amicably to begin with...and councils often do not move quickly....but if I could play it again...I think I would have been much stronger in asserting that the drains must be fixed.
As it stands, if I do not pursue a legal action, I would be faced with a £30k bill to reconstruct the wall (which has to be done as it was/is listed)...by pursuing an action, the bill will be several thousand and if I don't win my case, I could also end up with costs against me.
All in all, a complete pain in the @rse.
So, someone else will be getting my premiums from March...Brit certainly will not.
:x :x :x :x
Have had formal written confirmation from my insurers that they are ignoring the advice of their own loss adjuster (who they appointed and who recommended settlement of my wall claim) and will not be paying a penny on the basis that they feel the collapse of the wall was due to a 'gradually operating cause' rather than 'flood'.
Have taken some advice from my brokers and regrettably, they feel that the ombudsman would side with the insurers....since the wall was subject to continuous soaking over a period of several months (although there was nothing I could do to prevent it).
So having first discussed the matter with my CO (thankyou for your advice and tolerating my 'rant')...I have now instructed my solicitor (Birketts in Norwich) and he is writing a final demand for payment to both the developer and County Council, together with an offer to go to abitration....if they decline either of these options, then sadly court is my only option.
Having had lots of dealings with my insurers recently...I feel this too is worth bringing to the forums attn. Something like this which occurs 'gradually' will often not be covered. I should have realised this, but was keen to resolve the drainage matter amicably to begin with...and councils often do not move quickly....but if I could play it again...I think I would have been much stronger in asserting that the drains must be fixed.
As it stands, if I do not pursue a legal action, I would be faced with a £30k bill to reconstruct the wall (which has to be done as it was/is listed)...by pursuing an action, the bill will be several thousand and if I don't win my case, I could also end up with costs against me.
All in all, a complete pain in the @rse.
So, someone else will be getting my premiums from March...Brit certainly will not.
:x :x :x :x
If you take the "brave" decisions in order to get recompense through the courts it could become a very costly affair (as you have already gathered ), it appears to me that all parties involved could make a strong(ish) case to plead " not guilty my lord". Due to the nature of the problem ( or case ? ) there are too many variables and any of these could work in favour of any of the parties involved. Nobody can categorically state " it was TOTALLY you fault", rather a lot of "before and after" forensic evidence would be required to confidently make that statement. Even then it may prove that a party was probably only "partially" responsible therefore not liale for all the costs.
As you suggested, the best course of action may be to " push it" legally as far as it is viable and hope for some recompense.
Good luck.
As you suggested, the best course of action may be to " push it" legally as far as it is viable and hope for some recompense.
Good luck.
Schoolmarm
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shelli said:
I don't like you replying to Hazel in this manner. Are you calling her a liar?
I feel for you Pford75. I've had run ins with insurance companies in the past too. Not a pleasant business.
I know nothing about the legal side of things but I guess that you informed the council of the problem a long time in advance of the wall falling down must at least count for something. The fact that the insurance company won't pay up doesn't mean the council shouldn't.
A lot of grief for something that could so easily been avoided.
I know nothing about the legal side of things but I guess that you informed the council of the problem a long time in advance of the wall falling down must at least count for something. The fact that the insurance company won't pay up doesn't mean the council shouldn't.
A lot of grief for something that could so easily been avoided.