Heating Systems

[Flyfisher]

Thanks for that Graham . . . £6900 sounds much more like it!
How did you plan to distribute the heat within the house, and is that included in the above equipment cost?
Also, have you considered using your moat as the heat source? I've read that a water source leads to greater efficiency.

 

[DaveBrigg]

"Environment friendly" and "from the forests of Argentina" sounds a little oxymoronic to me

I suspect there was a strong streak of irony in Dave's post, Flyfisher.

Indeed - we were sold on the idea of pellets being carbon neutral, as well as cheaper than oil. It was a bit of a surprise to find that our 'local' supplier was actually shipping them in from South America. Rumour has it that a British manufacturer may soon be starting up. Although our boiler keeps overheating and shutting down I suspect that this is not typical, and I know of a village hall nearby who have the same system with many fewer problems.
When working out costs, don't forget that grants are available for any 'green' heating installed. It knocked £1,500 off our initial outlay.

 

[skier-hughes]

We have to discount the moat. It is surrounded by trees, so every couple of years needs dredging to remove the build up of silt/leaves etc. Lovely "soil" but no good for heat.

If we go ahead we intend to plumb it into the existing radiator system, which is being updated as we do each room in the house. This will mean that it should get more efficient as we do the work, but Ice Energy assure me it will give us enough heating to warm the place as is. We do not plan to do all rads in one go as we are unsure how each room will be when done.

 

[sarahj]

There is a factory in Co Durham that makes them, and indeed the local schools have converted to pellet boilers from solid fuel.

 

[worms]

We have to discount the moat

I thought the idea would be to have an open loop system, so all you would need is an inlet manifold in the moat, at a suitable depth to be above the build-up of debris but below the freeze-zone?

 

[skier-hughes]

We have to discount the moat

I thought the idea would be to have an open loop system, so all you would need is an inlet manifold in the moat, at a suitable depth to be above the build-up of debris but below the freeze-zone?

Maybe I should look into it in more detail, I thought it was the same as the land version but in water

Graham

 

[worms]

Graham, if you do a google search with "open loop" and "heat pump" as the search terms you will find lots of info - mainly using wells as the water source but one using the Thames.

I am sure I have oversimplified the process, but basically, instead of circulating an antifreeze mix in sealed pipes through the heat exchanger, you circulate the well (or moat) water. Using well water you have to discharge the water elsewhere or it may cool down the well. I would imagine that if your moat is big enough you could return the water to it without unduly influencing the overall temperature of the available water. Potentially you save the costs of several hundred meters of ditches and pipework, for the cost of a submersible pump!

 

[Nemesis]

Jon Maine, at the Merchant's House in Shepton Mallet, is running his from a borehole.

We have a burn adjacent to the house and we are think of some way of using the water from that, although in summer it runs very low.

 

[Penners]

We have a burn adjacent to the house

If a burn can't supply you with heat, I don't know what can.

 

[skier-hughes]

I have been in touch with Jon and am going to give him a call shortly to discuss how his system is working out, maybe - hopefully - give him a visit and see it first hand.

Graham

 

[Nemesis]

I think his a closed loop though.

Paid a 'flying visit' to Shepton Mallet recently, although Jon wasn't there had a brief look at his house - wonderful work.

 

[skier-hughes]

My chat is more to find out the sort of heat output I should be expecting in the real world so I know either what to expect or what not to buy.

 

[Nemesis]

Maybe - but the work he has done on his house is worth more than a fleeting glance.

It's outstanding.

Such a surprise to turn the corner from a concrete construction sixties or early seventies?) off the town square and come across a wonderful little enclave of historic buildings.

I seem to recall Jon also telling me that someone - I think may even be Ice Energy - used a skip of water to heat their premises.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/A8199219

http://www.merchants-house.co.uk/links.htm




http://www.nef.org.uk/gshp/

 

[Andrew Bodenham]

Before installing a conventional CH system we relied on our stove to keep most of the house warm, and thus needed to run it 24 hrs a day. To achieve this we burned wood during the day and loaded it up with coal for the overnight. With careful regulation of the air controls we could get an 8 hour burn overnight no problem.
We did find that ordinary house coal led to severe soot & tar build up in the flue, so switched to compressed "stove nuts" which I think were made from anthracite; these gave a much cleaner burn.
Now we just burn wood. Once the stove is hot a good charge of logs will keep going for 3 to 4 hours on a slow burn, and have enough fuel left to get the next charge going nicely. Important that the wood is well dried out. We also burn workshop waste, pallets etc. but these burn much more rapidly than "proper" firewood i.e. logs.
One major difference between coal and wood burning is the amount of ash produced - with coal we had to empty daily, whereas with wood we empty every 7 - 10 days, and the wood ash can go in the compost.
I think a lot depends on the air-tightness of the stove and the ability to control the primary and secondary air. Ours is a Morso Squirrel which we have found to be excellent.

 

[Nemesis]

Actually - thinking about GSHP technology which relies on trenches - I suppose in some cases archaeological investigation should take place.

Moving in with diggers around ancient sites could be a bad thing for history.

 

[Jane Smith]

We're thinking of installing a GSHP and yesterday visited someone who has one up and running. His heats a building of about 150 feet by 30 feet, via radiators (apparently he needed to put in 30% extra radiators to use the heat pump as the source) rather than underfloor, which is very disruptive to retrofit. The system is based on a Thermia heat pump and came from Eco Heat in Sheffield (they have a website but I don't have a link, sorry) and cost £12,000 installed (although he did his own groundwork: two 200m pipework loops installed 1m deep, in striaght runs--coiled runs are not as efficient). Grants are available from here:

http://www.lowcarbonbuildings.org.uk/home

And here's a list of installers you can use to qualify for a grant:

http://www.clear-skies.org/households/RecognisedProducts.aspx?intTechnologyID=43

Can't find out how much the grant is right now but I think it's a thousand or two--enough to make a difference.

 

[Flyfisher]

We're thinking of installing a GSHP and yesterday visited someone who has one up and running.

What is their experience so far? Are they pleased with the system? Have they worked out their fuel savings yet?

 

[Jane Smith]

They only installed it six months ago, but are so far very pleased with it as they don't have to involve themselves with it much at all. It's set to come on a couple of times a day, runs without trouble, and gets the place warm. So far, no problems--but they don't know what sort of running costs they've incurred. And they have nothing to compare it to, as this is a new renovation of a property which was not lived in before.

 

[skier-hughes]

Did they live in a house with "normal" gas heated rads at some point, which can get hot to the touch? If so, how would they compare the heat of the gas rads to those they have now?

Graham

 

[Jane Smith]

Sorry, I didn't ask them for full details of where they lived before and how they heated the house...!

The radiators were on, but were not too hot to touch. The heat pump was on, but it switched off soon after we got there. The barn conversion that was being heated by the heat pump was nice and warm and I'd have had no problems living in it.