circa 1800 cottage, internal wall question

[Penners]

I've always felt that criminals should be forced to spend their prison term pointing. It would cut re-offending rates dramatically.

 

[joechip]

Hi all, thanks for your replies. Here are some pics followed by some comments that perhaps may help others thinking of trying some pointing themselves. I have not gone right upto the top of the walls yet as we are waiting to have some of the thinner ceiling beams replaced as they are very thin and set in badly. All the pointing you can see is rough pointing and the walls are going to be finished in lime by a professional.

This first pic is the room with all the old render removed and the stone raked out. The fireplace was still there at this point.

Here the wall has been repointed with lime mortar. I am using the bagged up lime mortar which just requires knocking up in the bell mixer. Then I decant it into a tub or smaller 'washing up' size bowls ready to use.

This is a closer shot of the stones, some of them quite large especially that beast under the beam. You can see how wonky the wall is on that left side of the window.

Here the fire has been taken out by my builder. I raked the stone out and repointed inside.

Another picture showing the new oak windows and window boards (and Merlin).

As far as damping down goes, I used a garden sprayer as recommended and damped down the area I was working on before starting, during and after pointing, keeping the wall moist. I then got up during the night once and wet the pointing (the first night only), then again first thing. I did most of this during the warmer weather so I guess it's just a case of monitoring the moisture in the cooler weather as not so much may be needed? I wet the pointing until it glistened and did notice in the warmer weather it soaked up the water very quickly so sprayed quite regular until it started to go off. I think with damping down it can sound more complicated than it is. You get a feel for how much you can put on and when it needs more and the sprayers are ideal for this.

I use the churn brush the next morning and knock the mortar into the joints, again you get a feel for this. The brush is quite 'weighted' and you get a feel for how much pressure is needed. You need safety glasses when doing this as bits fly off. I then brush down the wall with a soft dustpan brush and then carry on spraying. The churn brush is also good when you see any small cracks or the mortar moving away from a stone. It whacks it back in well and if needed you can pull the brush along the point to really force it in. I guess you would not do this if you were pointing for show as it does kind of smudge the mortar over the surrounding stones but if you are going to plaster the wall it does not matter at all. I also liked using the brush as if you are pointing in stages it shows up where you are up to when you start pointing again as the 'tamped in' pointing has a different texture.

I bought mortar hawks but found it a lot easier to use a washing up bowel nearby and two trowels. The one in my left hand to hold the mortar in place if needed while I apply it with the smaller pointing trowel (as per the picture below) in my right hand or visa versa.

This tool is a must have and I used it for 95pct of my pointing. If like me you have a lot to do be ready to use plasters on the sore points on your hands where the tool rubs to protect your hand and fingers.

Working with lime mortar is a lot easier than one imagines. It is quite sticky and sticks to the trowel. It is very easy to push into the joints and not like using cement which seems to have a life of it's own and wants to go everywhere but where you want it. Use a board on the floor and any that drops you can scrape it back up and use it, nothing needs to be wasted. I knocked some up then did not use it and came back to it two weeks later, stuck it back in the bell mixer for ten minutes and it was as good as first time.

Anyway, enough waffle from me. I am not pretending to be an expert. I am far from that but if this can help anyone starting out it will be worth my time posting my experiences. The guy that will be taking care of the plastering has been around to check the walls and has put my mind at rest that everything is almost good to go as soon as we get the ceiling sorted out.

 

[Nemesis]

That's terrific - it's really good to see how much you have achieved. I've no doubt you could have done the plastering too, but getting someone else in saves a great deal of time. It's very useful to have found someone capable of lime plastering.

Hope you are feeling a little more encouraged, now it's at the stage of putting back rather than feeling it's all overwhelming.

Merlin is beautiful. I am currently catless and feel a trip to the animal rescue place required.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Joe - excellent work and inspirational. Will look fab when you have finished. Keep up the good work, and thanks for the beginner's guide. One of the things I learned from fencing my land is not to start in the most visible place, so I'll be learning in an inconspicuous section first.

2 other questions - what are you going to do with the floor, and why did you take the fire/hearth out? Look good to me before.

Robin

 

[Penners]

the smaller pointing trowel ....This tool is a must have and I used it for 95pct of my pointing.

That tool carries the somewhat pejorative name of a "plasterer's small tool". ( )

It's invaluable for any and all kinds of plastering and pointing.

 

[Gervase]

You can also call it a "leaf'n'square" if you don't want to be perjorative about plasterers.

Well done on the repointing - a cracking jop there.

 

[joechip]

Hi again all and thanks for your comments.

Robin, for the floor we have bought slate tiles. They are uncalibrated but luckily do not vary in thickness too much. They are an African slate with multiple colored veins of reds , blues, blacks and golds. I like them a lot and think they will work with the room. As for the fire, the picture may make it look better than it was as the insert was very shallow and the fire smoked a lot when used. It also did not provide much heat unless you were sitting right in front of it. We are going to install a small multifuel stove in it's place which I have been told and hope will serve us a lot better in the cold winter months (and it gets very cold up here).

Back on the subject of tiles. Does anyone have any experience with tiling over concrete floors. My floor is not in the best of condition but not broken or cracked, mainly just dusty and a little brittle on the top layer in places. What do they do before laying the tiles, do they seal the floor with something? Also do I want to use a dpm which is something you read a lot about on tiling guides. Also does anyone know, if I am not having skirting boards, but lime down to the floor does the tiling come before the walls are plastered or after?

 

[joechip]

Merlin is beautiful. I am currently catless and feel a trip to the animal rescue place required.

Yes he is rather the center of attention around the house and is usually either being naughty or 'clingy'. What ever you do don't get a siamese unless you either have lots of time on your hands and are in need of a naughty child replacement !

We love him to bits though...

 

[Penners]

As for the fire, the picture may make it look better than it was as the insert was very shallow and the fire smoked a lot when used. It also did not provide much heat unless you were sitting right in front of it. We are going to install a small multifuel stove in it's place which I have been told and hope will serve us a lot better in the cold winter months (and it gets very cold up here).

A multifuel stove is a worthwhile investment for a number of reasons. But if the lack of warmth from a smoking open fire is the only reason, then I would give it a chance to prove itself, before you write it off.

Once you've installed a hearth, a grate and a good fireback, and got the chimney well dried out, you may find that the open fire will be greatly improved.

 

[joechip]

As for the fire, the picture may make it look better than it was as the insert was very shallow and the fire smoked a lot when used. It also did not provide much heat unless you were sitting right in front of it. We are going to install a small multifuel stove in it's place which I have been told and hope will serve us a lot better in the cold winter months (and it gets very cold up here).

A multifuel stove is a worthwhile investment for a number of reasons. But if the lack of warmth from a smoking open fire is the only reason, then I would give it a chance to prove itself, before you write it off.

Once you've installed a hearth, a grate and a good fireback, and got the chimney well dried out, you may find that the open fire will be greatly improved.

Hi Penners, yes there are other reasons, the size of the room, it's quite small and there are safety issues, cats to think of, it will be nice when if we have to go out or go to bed the fire is 'contained'. Also the room may be used as a bedroom at times.

The larger of the downstairs rooms has what looks like to be a larger inglenook so I may investigate having that one as an open fire but somehow out of simplicity and safety we may go for a stove there also.

 

[Moo]

There you are, Penners: another reason for not having a cat.

 

[joechip]

Watch out Moo, he's mad and those brakes are well past their service....

 

[Penners]

You know what really worries me? His rear-view mirror is on the wrong side.

 

[Nemesis]

That does it. I need a cat.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Robin, for the floor we have bought slate tiles. They are uncalibrated but luckily do not vary in thickness too much. They are an African slate with multiple colored veins of reds , blues, blacks and golds. I like them a lot and think they will work with the room.

Back on the subject of tiles. Does anyone have any experience with tiling over concrete floors. My floor is not in the best of condition but not broken or cracked, mainly just dusty and a little brittle on the top layer in places. What do they do before laying the tiles, do they seal the floor with something? Also do I want to use a dpm which is something you read a lot about on tiling guides. Also does anyone know, if I am not having skirting boards, but lime down to the floor does the tiling come before the walls are plastered or after?

Joe,

I've recently laid a similar uncalibrated slate flag floor (with an even bigger carbon footprint than yours!).

I laid mine in a lime screed on top of the sub-floor (also concrete sadly). Lessons I learned:

* Unless your room is exactly the right size you'll need to cut the flags - a petrol Stihl saw outside is the only way to do it (and fun - approx £50 for a weekend. You need a diamond blade and it is muich cheaper to buy one for £40 than keep hiring one). I made templates for each tile and marked the floor also, prior to cutting. Decide if you want a regular or random repeat and mark up accordingly.

* Only lay enough screed for a couple of flags at a time - and go slowly. My flags are a mixture of 1200x600 and 900x600mm and weigh about 60kgs. I lost a stone and a half doing the floor (60sqm in total over two rooms). It is the hardest physical work I have done, and I'm not shy of elbow grease. It is harder than either fencing or shearing sheep all day, if you've done either of those.

* use wooden wedges to lay the flags onto and then remove them - helps avoid crushed fingers.

* if your uncalibrated flags are not flat like mine, then try and match the undulations of the edges to each other when slecting which to lay where. Use a level to get the floor as level as possible, lifting and chucking more screed in if needs be under a flag. "wiggling" a flag is usually enough to squish excess screed out at the edges when levelling them.

* use a long straight edge across the whole room to keep rows in line.

* wash the surface of each flag well once laid - get rid of all traces of screed, as it is an absolute bugger to remove from slate later (especially the edges)

* lay the floor before plastering the walls - a much neater finish and you can be a bit more inaccurate in wielding the Stihl saw.

* use gloves, as night after night of lime on your hands will soon eat them away to the bone. Mine went black and very sore! Also wear capped boots - saves the toes and enables you to walk the heaviest flags on your feet.

Apologies for long post - PM me if you want any more help. Very happy to help out if I can.

Robin

 

[Penners]

I lost a stone and a half doing the floor

FW - the stone-and-a-half that you lost is now part of your stone floor.

Poetic, I reckon....

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Penners - you have way too much time on your hands!

:lol:

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Just testing:

bugger bugger bugger and buggeration

 

[FamilyWiggs]

They've installed an "ACME dignity-preserving-profanity-exludatron"

How very "genteel" :wink:

It has one slight flaw though... I predeict a competition will ensue to test the extent of its vocabulary

 

[Penners]

Oh, believe me - it's been tested on a number of occasions before now.

And found wanting.