Any Real experts here ?

[ljn]

on the original post,
A forum is a place of discussion. I am very grateful to have an informal place like PPUK to bounce ideas and get opinions.
Although there is evidently a lot of knowledge shared here, it is only an informal discussion, and I don't think anyone would take an opinion from a forum as a substitute for Listed Building Consent, a signed off electrical installation or structural engineer's calculation.

On the high rise argument, I don't think the high rise typology wrong.
I would like an apartment in the Barbican. Bang in the centre of town, well, planned with great services, great cinema, theatre, gallery, maintained communal areas and gardens, well designed interior layouts well built.
I would be glad to live high rise buildings designed the likes of by Erno Goldfinger or Denys Lasdun.

Move the Barbican to some suburb, quarter the construction budget, then take away the services, forget about maintenance, and you get the nightmare dormitory place nobody would like to live in. The buildings become a dumping ground for society's unwanted.
The same thing happened in Spitalfields - the residents hated the place with it's stinking dirty streets, its the leaking, damp, drafty old Georgian buildings. They wanted to demolish the lot, blaming the buildings, but it wasn't the buildings that were the problem.

Poorly designed, cheaply constructed buildings are just bad buildings. Any building needs maintaining. Most people who hate living in high rise buildings complain about smelly stairs, missing light bulbs and broken lifts. That's not a problem with architecture, thats neglect of the most basic maintenance.

Often its politics rather than typology that are to blame.
The current obsession with building "affordable homes" to meet the needs of home builders, is resulting in square miles worth of little poorly constructed houses with no services and no plans for maintenance. These are tomorrow's slums. Hi or low rise, rubbish is rubbish. Many will be demolished within 15 years. Some affordable houses near mine have literally falling apart and boarded up after only 4 years.

Most poorly constructed historic buildings have been lost and replaced.

Didn't want to sound negative. I'll ad and a Happy New Year and a smiley face

 

[Cloudscape]

Many will be demolished within 15 years.

Yay! So not all negative then.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

4.3 The condition of the railway structures over the running railway lines is worsethan previously reported. Many sections of the railway structures in the tunnelsare clearly unsafe. The nature of the railway structures is such that most of theironwork that is affected is hidden or its condition is obscured by historic attemptsto repair or strengthen original metalwork. The structure that has resulted fromthese historic works is a complex amalgam of different components, mixingwrought iron and mild steel, rivets, bolts and welding, all with unknown andunpredictable consequences.
Experts, eh? Get two in a room...

Or even just one, if you read 4.3 carefully - sentence three: the ironwork is hidden or obscured ("hidden" and "obscured" clearly having two entirely different meanings, which will come as a surprise to the compilers of the average thesaurus), sentence four: the consequences of the form of construction adopted are unpredictable, but sentence two: it is clearly unsafe. It would be interesting to know on what basis (nice fat cheque?) a professional can judge that something that is invisible is "clearly" unsafe.

 

[Nemesis]

Well yes, that's what it was all about - he who pays the piper etc - and given that the Annex (Fish Market) wasnt actually part of the equation it's interesting that it was raised at all by Dr St**dman in his proof...

He wasn't the only 'expert' to have egg on his face at the end.

Thankfully, a group of we 'experts' and indeed 'non-experts' on the side of the buildings managed, unpaid, to make a bit of a mockery of a great deal of it, alongside EH and its experts.

There are those who make a nice living working for any developer (and in this case local authority too) who will pay them to rubbish buildings.

Not that it's finished yet, but that's for another year.

 

[zunetunes]

Yes. I'm an expert at slagging off other people (only joking!)
I have no expertise, but regularly browse the site and am grateful for the insights of others. I'm not foolish enough to take on board any one opinion (even from a "Real expert").
Shame the OP hasn't been back!

 

[Penners]

James

Your lengthy post contains a fair amount of good sense. But it doesn't seem to credit others with much.

Of course it can be sensible to seek advice from a structural engineer where a decision involving the essential structure of the building is, or may be, at risk. And if you'd read back over many hundreds/thousands of threads that have built up over the years, you'll frequently find this recommendation made to those seeking advice.

But there are three important points that appear to overlook.

1. Very few people would be foolish enough to make important structural decisions about their property based on some opinions expressed in response to a question or two on an internet forum. People generally have more sense. And where a questioner appears to demonstrate such naivety, they are invariably recommended to consult experts.

2. There is a very substantial body of professional expertise on this forum, representing a considerable cross-section of skills and qualifications. Contrary to your apparent impressions, they do not all blow their own trumpets in some kind of thinly-disguised advertising campaign - in fact very, very few do so. But that doesn't mean that they lack either knowledge or experience. I have always been amazed at the amount of sheer altruistic generosity shown by many of our contributors who, despite being professionals who earn their living by their expertise, are still prepared to give free, valuable, expert advice here.

3. The great majority of the questions asked here do not concern 'make-or-break' structural issues. They cover a wide sweep of fairly uncontroversial topics from - for example - interior decoration to local authority relationships to floor treatment... and so on. In fact, many of the threads are simply discussions of non-building topics that interest us.

So thank you for your concern. But in general I think you can rest easy. The forum is in pretty good hands, really.

But please do join in, as and when you wish to.

Penners (rank amateur)

 

[Penners]

Blimmin' 'eck. Is it me, or did I get a bit sanctimonious above?

Oh, well. What the hell...

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Penners,

Seems very fair and sensible to me.

Robin (aspiring to become an amateur)

 

[middi]

James, I also agree totally with Penners "sanctimonious" reply to your post.

Please do feel free to "chip in" on this forum, it does get rather interesting when "unsanctified" words creep in on some posts.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

I get the impression that "James" was either a "drive-by" as Nem puts it, or someone who's only recently got his paper wings and, in the flush of youth, thinks he knows it all. I got mine quite a while ago but I'm still learning about the practicalities every day. My theory is pretty strong though - "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is".

 

[Penners]

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is".

I think I'll get that tattooed... somewhere or other.

 

[james.struc.eng]

This is certainly a responsive forum, thank you for all your replies. My original posting was merely a suggestion that some people may be misled into relying on information that is not necessarily correct, I also suggested that it may be beneficial to identify those people who are considered experts in their own field, not that there aren't any experts. As for recently obtaining my wings, I retired a number of years ago having worked as a consulting engineer on a broad range of projects that included amongst others York Minster and Hampton Court Palace. I do accept that most topics of conversation here are innocuous, however there are areas where over simplification and generic answers are offered to very case specific questions, the use of chemical damp proofing systems, mortar specifications and the treatment of damaged masonry being examples. The dogmatic fashion in which some posters offer their advice may lead a casual enquirer to believe there are no alternatives, and people do love free advice especially when it fits in with there budget or expectations.I stand by my original comments, experience and competence is very relative within a forum such as this and cannot be measured by the collective back slapping that tends to prevail amongst members of the club. I would be delighted to take advice from an Historian on a related topic, I would be less likely to respect the advice of a window maker on the same topic. Why not let those who consider or even better, those who are considered as experts be flagged on this site, because I like other people visiting here havn't got a clue who these people are and what they are experts in.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

some people may be misled into relying on information that is not necessarily correct

James, if that's your concern then I think you're worrying far too much about one minor internet forum. Indeed, you're coming across as:
and I hope you will go out and put every other building-related internet forum straight too...
Information that isn't correct is available everywhere (damp-proofing companies are a particular bugbear of mine), even from "experts". Anyone who picks up a newspaper or turns on the TV, or asks someone they know, runs that risk.

 

[ljn]

I also suggested that it may be beneficial to identify those people who are considered experts in their own field

Status in an online community is acquired through contribution to the forum. Those who share knowledge become respected. To come into a forum as an "expert" with one post would be absurd.
Even if you wanted to state qualifications, how would you prove your qualification, expertise and identity? Post a scan of your university degree, proof of hours working on certain projects? Maybe a scan of a utility bill and passport?

Or you might get a 7 year old posing as a structural engineer and advising someone on the benefits of chocolate fireguards.

Forums like this one are an amazingly rich source of information. I consider discussion as more like dinner party or pub conversation about matters of common interest. Not to be in any way confused with professional advice.

 

[middi]

Well James, you may have noticed that some of us ( exising contributors) appear to give advise that would be contrary to any " professional" structural engineer's "well calculated" opinion . I am rather surprised that a professional of your( self professed ! ) experience has failed to capture the spirit of this forum ,( you will !!!).Sometime it appears that advise is given to- "drive square pegs into round holes", contrary to any " expert" opinion this actually works, especially on this forum.

( if you stick to this forum long enough you will find out why ).

 

[Wren]

Dear james.struc.eng

Rather than referring to themselves as experts it would appear that many of the regular posters have on the contrary played down their own expertise. This makes the forum a more welcoming place for us amateurs who like to engage in 'inconsequential' discussions about the period properties we care for.

 

[Moo]

James's original post has given us all much food for thought, and I hope that he is not disappointed by the quality and courteous nature of the responses - even though they tend to say much the same thing in a variety of ways.
Just a couple of questions for him, now:
What drew him to examine this particular forum? and;
Does he propose to extend his 'brief' to other forums that deal with building matters?

 

[Gervase]

I consider discussion as more like dinner party or pub conversation about matters of common interest.

Shame about the absence of beer though

 

[Penners]

Shame about the absence of beer though

That's easily rectified. I'll see you up at The White Horse in half an hour.

The first pint of Bulls Cross is on me.

 

[Gervase]

This is wild West Wales here - the last pub in the village closed 50 years ago. We have two chapels and a church for spiritual sustenance, but nothing to lift the spirits. My old local was a White Horse - this one. A lovely pub with superb beers and good food, and now sorely missed.