Tom
Member
- Messages
- 1,136
- Location
- Charente, France
christianb said:
I am. Just having a nice glass of wine with me feet up...for a change
- Thread starter JoceAndChris
- Start date
I am. Just having a nice glass of wine with me feet up...for a change
Schoolmarm
Member
- Messages
- 1,894
- Location
- edgworth, lancs
philpjuk100 said:
I know full well it was a reply to that question.
You DID misquote me, I didn't just think it.
You linked my replies to the WRONG posts.
And you can't disagree with my agreeing with Gareth.
As for DWB, you may own 5 cars but you can't drive more than one at once. Hardly a huge threat to the planet are you.
And there are enough of us who DO care, who will try hard to make the right choices, to cancel people like you out.
CatherineB
Member
- Messages
- 353
- Location
- Cambridge
Please, peeps, can we leave it now?
(((( GROUP HUG ))))
(((( GROUP HUG ))))
JoceAndChris
Member
- Messages
- 6,606
- Location
- Lincolnshire
It's been very hard for me to keep silent during this whole traumatic thread.
I know Jaqy quite well, I know Gareth very well. Gareth has given me literally hundreds of hours of his time- fascinating hours in which I've learned more about art, culture, history, architecture, even literature- than I've ever learned in my life. This knowledge he gives freely and generously to people who want to listen. The point I made tentatively earlier I'll make more strongly now - it's a gross error of judgement to think that Gareth's appraisal of taste is founded on pettiness, or personal spite, or anything other than what is historically appropriate, pleasing to the eye and grounded in basic visual sensibility. I'm appalled at the criticism he's received today, and shocked at the utter lack of appreciation for someone who has given such knowledgeable support, advice, and information over years.
You have to really ask yourself - am I embarked on this project because I value the architecture and culture of the past, and know something about it, and can take this building securely into the future with this knowledge, as well as having some well-researched idea of how modern adaptations will best improve the property, or am I embarked because I quite like power tools, I love a challenge, I want to see my version of this building? My taste, even if ill-informed, is just as valid as anyone else's? If the latter, then this forum will be a hard place for the poster.
Yesterday, Jaqy came with the generous loan of her power tools and broke up all the concrete. I am grateful for the help, but I have said to Jaqy over and over that Chris can't deal with mess - and neither can I , that I can't live on a building site , that I've had major back surgery in the last 6 years and just can't do the astonishing things she can do. To an extent, I don't feel very listened to. I now have 2 tons of rubble by the front gate I just don't know what to with - I hadn't envisaged there being so much , I wish I'd been warned. On top of that, Chris is losing his job, so it's not as if we can throw money at this mess to get rid of it. Help really really really needs to be thought through - is it help just to turn up and show off with a breaker? It's some of the back breaking work - but only maybe a twentieth? Anyone can destroy. It's the building back up again that's bloody hard.
I know Jaqy quite well, I know Gareth very well. Gareth has given me literally hundreds of hours of his time- fascinating hours in which I've learned more about art, culture, history, architecture, even literature- than I've ever learned in my life. This knowledge he gives freely and generously to people who want to listen. The point I made tentatively earlier I'll make more strongly now - it's a gross error of judgement to think that Gareth's appraisal of taste is founded on pettiness, or personal spite, or anything other than what is historically appropriate, pleasing to the eye and grounded in basic visual sensibility. I'm appalled at the criticism he's received today, and shocked at the utter lack of appreciation for someone who has given such knowledgeable support, advice, and information over years.
You have to really ask yourself - am I embarked on this project because I value the architecture and culture of the past, and know something about it, and can take this building securely into the future with this knowledge, as well as having some well-researched idea of how modern adaptations will best improve the property, or am I embarked because I quite like power tools, I love a challenge, I want to see my version of this building? My taste, even if ill-informed, is just as valid as anyone else's? If the latter, then this forum will be a hard place for the poster.
Yesterday, Jaqy came with the generous loan of her power tools and broke up all the concrete. I am grateful for the help, but I have said to Jaqy over and over that Chris can't deal with mess - and neither can I , that I can't live on a building site , that I've had major back surgery in the last 6 years and just can't do the astonishing things she can do. To an extent, I don't feel very listened to. I now have 2 tons of rubble by the front gate I just don't know what to with - I hadn't envisaged there being so much , I wish I'd been warned. On top of that, Chris is losing his job, so it's not as if we can throw money at this mess to get rid of it. Help really really really needs to be thought through - is it help just to turn up and show off with a breaker? It's some of the back breaking work - but only maybe a twentieth? Anyone can destroy. It's the building back up again that's bloody hard.
Schoolmarm
Member
- Messages
- 1,894
- Location
- edgworth, lancs
Joce :shock: sending a big hug.
Tom
Member
- Messages
- 1,136
- Location
- Charente, France
Joce, I'm staggered at what you've said. Really, I am. In your text yesterday, you said a neighbouring farmer had offered to move the rubble for you and place it in the holes in the lane. Has he changed his mind? You were full of praise for me helping you, too. Now you say I just 'turned up to show off with a breaker'. It beggars belief. I even offered to help move it while I was there and you no, that I'd done enough. I'll come down and move it for you, if you like!
I don't know what you mean by me not listening to you, either. We had such fun yesterday...well, I thought we did. You even sent a text later saying how grateful Chris was, too, and that the two of you had thought the job would take weeks.
As for my house, as you know, I bought it thinking it was early 20th century, with no intention of doing any work on it at all. I didn't buy it to 'break it', use power tools, ruin it or destroy it.
I'm shocked :shock:
Would you like me to come down and help you move the rubble, relay the edging stones, rake the top off and backfill with whatever you choose to lay? I'm more than happy to. I certainly didn't help you with the intention of leaving you in such a state!!
I don't know what you mean by me not listening to you, either. We had such fun yesterday...well, I thought we did. You even sent a text later saying how grateful Chris was, too, and that the two of you had thought the job would take weeks.
As for my house, as you know, I bought it thinking it was early 20th century, with no intention of doing any work on it at all. I didn't buy it to 'break it', use power tools, ruin it or destroy it.
I'm shocked :shock:
Would you like me to come down and help you move the rubble, relay the edging stones, rake the top off and backfill with whatever you choose to lay? I'm more than happy to. I certainly didn't help you with the intention of leaving you in such a state!!
jocelyn plummer
Member
- Messages
- 2,297
- Location
- North Norfolk
Joce, a HUGE Hug from me and J xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Look on the bright side, where were you at last year, and now look at the amount of progress you have made, it's full of creativity and sensitivity.
Look on the bright side, where were you at last year, and now look at the amount of progress you have made, it's full of creativity and sensitivity.
Tom
Member
- Messages
- 1,136
- Location
- Charente, France
Joce, just to add to my last post. I need to hire a van next week. It doesn't matter what day. Please let me come down and at least clear the rubble away for you. I don't know what I've done to upset you but I sure as hell want to do all I can to put it right. It wouldn't take me long. I can even come while you're out if you'd rather not see me, but I won't come without you saying it's ok.
philpjuk100
Member
- Messages
- 1,145
- Location
- newark nottinghamshire
Schoolmarm said:
OK I apologise for linking your reply to the wrong post,the second post was by Gar Oh I give up!
biffvernon
Member
- Messages
- 4,607
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Oh look here folks, if you argufying people kiss and make up I'll treat you to a bar of Duffy's next time you're in Louth.
Now that is really worth pointing out. Oil (and coal and gas), for what it does, is amazingly cheap. That's why we've become utterly addicted to it, an addiction so powerful that we are prepared to wreck the planet for it and maintain a state of denial over our action. Two problems: it won't stay cheap for long so the global economy will be destroyed and it is too late to undo the harm. We have to get into mitigation and damage limitation mode.
christianb said:
Now that is really worth pointing out. Oil (and coal and gas), for what it does, is amazingly cheap. That's why we've become utterly addicted to it, an addiction so powerful that we are prepared to wreck the planet for it and maintain a state of denial over our action. Two problems: it won't stay cheap for long so the global economy will be destroyed and it is too late to undo the harm. We have to get into mitigation and damage limitation mode.
LadyArowana
Member
- Messages
- 3,687
biffvernon said:
Biff, it's going to cost you a lot more than a bar of chocolate to get a sneaky peak at some girl on girl action. I'm not pimping them out for less that a few grand an evening, and it's exta if you want the wellies and power tools, .........................a lot extra.
Penners
Member
- Messages
- 17,294
- Location
- Suffolk, England
Oh, hear hear!biffvernon said:
Enough!
you know i quoted one of Penners posts on another thread and he posted again while i did it, and the quote came out for the more recent post , i had to go back and delete it. Something about his back or something that he doesnt like to talk about.
Schoolmarm
Member
- Messages
- 1,894
- Location
- edgworth, lancs
I know but I can't bear it happening to me. Especially when the person quoting it then goes on to say why I shouldn't have said the thing I didn't say. :?
JoceAndChris
Member
- Messages
- 6,606
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Gareth didn't know all the details of Jaqy's story when he made that ruined house post, and he'd probably admit that some of the impetus behind those remarks was anger at her forthright, uncaring ungreen sentiments.
Jaqy deserves to know what I think about the house, and always advocates plain speaking, so I'll say - otherwise she'll always wonder.
Firstly, some much deserved praise. Jaqy, I'm amazed at the stamina, commitment, and back-breaking labour you've put into your house. It's a work of great love and dedication, and I admire you for it. The materials you've chosen, the quality of the craftsmanship, are really first class. You've learned all about breathing materials and created a breathing house in the traditional way, removing ton upon ton of cement and concrete to be able to do so. It's amazing, I really mean that. You inherited a pig's ear, a house ruined long ago as so many if them are, and you've made something of it.
But. What Gareth, probably, abhors, and what I do too is the belief that it's desirable to strip render off the house and leave it naked. This was never done in the past, it's an unfortunate modern craze. If it were mine, I'd want to cover all the scarring in the stonework with an appropriate lime render, to commission appropriate windows - I've no idea what they would be, but not the ones there now, and a different roof too. I've no idea what kind of roof either but that one looks wrong. Obviously, that's another level of rebuilding the house which probably isn't realistic for your lifetime. For those reasons, I don't think your house works aesthetically but most house hunters would probably love it, especially the location, the river, the spaciousness inside.
I won't discuss the interior, except to say that in my opinion the fashion for exposed stonework is unfortunate for a host of reasons we've often discussed on here.
Onto my house, which I know you want to help me with, but, I can't let you. It hasn't been ruined. The bit where you took the render off appalled Gervase. I must have that work done by people who really really know what they're doing with stonemasonry, and then rerendered in lime. It may never happen as I'll do it properly or not at all. The house is so precious to me that I'm prepared to wait, and save, for the very best professional craftsman I can afford, so I really, really don't want your kind offer of help. The only DIY I want to do is interior and garden design. It's been a long, slightly painful journey for me to realise that.
As for the rubble, I'll get rid of it eventually. You have your own concrete yard to break up, and I wouldn't dream of taking anymore of your time - or increasing the sense of obligation to you that I don't want. Sorry if all that's hurtful for you, but that's the way it is.
Jaqy deserves to know what I think about the house, and always advocates plain speaking, so I'll say - otherwise she'll always wonder.
Firstly, some much deserved praise. Jaqy, I'm amazed at the stamina, commitment, and back-breaking labour you've put into your house. It's a work of great love and dedication, and I admire you for it. The materials you've chosen, the quality of the craftsmanship, are really first class. You've learned all about breathing materials and created a breathing house in the traditional way, removing ton upon ton of cement and concrete to be able to do so. It's amazing, I really mean that. You inherited a pig's ear, a house ruined long ago as so many if them are, and you've made something of it.
But. What Gareth, probably, abhors, and what I do too is the belief that it's desirable to strip render off the house and leave it naked. This was never done in the past, it's an unfortunate modern craze. If it were mine, I'd want to cover all the scarring in the stonework with an appropriate lime render, to commission appropriate windows - I've no idea what they would be, but not the ones there now, and a different roof too. I've no idea what kind of roof either but that one looks wrong. Obviously, that's another level of rebuilding the house which probably isn't realistic for your lifetime. For those reasons, I don't think your house works aesthetically but most house hunters would probably love it, especially the location, the river, the spaciousness inside.
I won't discuss the interior, except to say that in my opinion the fashion for exposed stonework is unfortunate for a host of reasons we've often discussed on here.
Onto my house, which I know you want to help me with, but, I can't let you. It hasn't been ruined. The bit where you took the render off appalled Gervase. I must have that work done by people who really really know what they're doing with stonemasonry, and then rerendered in lime. It may never happen as I'll do it properly or not at all. The house is so precious to me that I'm prepared to wait, and save, for the very best professional craftsman I can afford, so I really, really don't want your kind offer of help. The only DIY I want to do is interior and garden design. It's been a long, slightly painful journey for me to realise that.
As for the rubble, I'll get rid of it eventually. You have your own concrete yard to break up, and I wouldn't dream of taking anymore of your time - or increasing the sense of obligation to you that I don't want. Sorry if all that's hurtful for you, but that's the way it is.
philpjuk100
Member
- Messages
- 1,145
- Location
- newark nottinghamshire
O
Tom
Member
- Messages
- 1,136
- Location
- Charente, France
Joce, none ofwhat you say is hurtful; my shoulders are way strong enough to take what people think with ease.
When the concrete render (inside and out) was taken off the walls of the house, there was nothing to suggest what had been there previously; not a scrap of anything. I have a picture of the house dated 1706 and even that shows bare stone. So, in the absence of any evidence of previous finishes, what do you do? At least it is bare and gives someone else the opportunity to add a finish if they choose to. I haven't sealed the stone (and don't plan to) so it would be easy for someone to add a lime finish in the future.
The windows are hideous, I have to agree, and will be replaced with Oak ones when we can around to it.
The roof was put on in the Sixties when it was so-called 'modernised'. The pitch is totally wrong, as is the design. It was originally gable-ended and the house had 3 floors. And I hate the concrete tiles. I may well get to do the roof, as it can't have much life left in it really but the windows will come first.
The time I offered didn't come with any obligation at all. Like I said to you just the other day, if I don't want to do something, I'll say no. People always know where they stand with me. They may not like it, but they're left with no illusions. I realised, when I lost both my parents at young ages, that life is too short to do things you don't want to do and to try to please people by pretending. Forthright I may be but with that comes truth and honesty.
When the concrete render (inside and out) was taken off the walls of the house, there was nothing to suggest what had been there previously; not a scrap of anything. I have a picture of the house dated 1706 and even that shows bare stone. So, in the absence of any evidence of previous finishes, what do you do? At least it is bare and gives someone else the opportunity to add a finish if they choose to. I haven't sealed the stone (and don't plan to) so it would be easy for someone to add a lime finish in the future.
The windows are hideous, I have to agree, and will be replaced with Oak ones when we can around to it.
The roof was put on in the Sixties when it was so-called 'modernised'. The pitch is totally wrong, as is the design. It was originally gable-ended and the house had 3 floors. And I hate the concrete tiles. I may well get to do the roof, as it can't have much life left in it really but the windows will come first.
The time I offered didn't come with any obligation at all. Like I said to you just the other day, if I don't want to do something, I'll say no. People always know where they stand with me. They may not like it, but they're left with no illusions. I realised, when I lost both my parents at young ages, that life is too short to do things you don't want to do and to try to please people by pretending. Forthright I may be but with that comes truth and honesty.
Flyfisher
Member
- Messages
- 10,201
- Location
- Norfolk, UK
Well I'll add another bar of chocolate, even at £3.60 a bar, and would be happy to lose the power tools but the wellies should stay. Anyone else care to chip in? Could be an interesting next PPUK get-together. :lol:LadyArowana said:
FamilyWiggs
Member
- Messages
- 3,452
- Location
- Flintshire, N Wales.
robgil said:Flyfisher said:
wellies and chocolate? sounds like an interesting day. naked except for wellies , chocolate , strong hallucinogenic drugs , a few bottles of mescal and a small wooded area. now that would be a good ppuk party.
That sounds awfully messy and energetic.
Couldn't we please just have a group hug? 8)