Which shellac sealant?

[JoceAndChris]

Dad came round today and insisted the bedroom floor is a DIY job, sshhhhh, hope Chris doesn't read this, he'll go mad. The last DIY floor was bad. I didn't seal it, and, according to Toby Newell's wonderful article, floors must be sealed. Toby also says wax must be put on very sparingly, and buffed off immediately, which is opposite to what I did- so I'm hoping for better results this time.

We've scrubbed and scrubbed (Ecover soap with linseed) and wire wooled and sanded (no machines) and picked off paint all day, and now it looks completely different - honey - not grey - and paint free! We've left all the 19th c splices, nails, worm holes and damage in place to keep as much character as possible. The floor is structurally sound, it must be, I've been round and round the edges perched on a ladder about 10 times and not fallen through.

I need to order the stuff, which stuff? I'm thinking no stain, so just a shellac seal followed by wax. (Johnson's Traffic Wax) Anyone used shellac and can tell me what to buy? I see there are these amazing flake things you dissolve in a carrier and also various different tints of liquid shellac. I hoping the shellac will darken and enrich the colour and provide a shiny first layer.

Any help much appreciated.

 

[jocelyn plummer]

I have found that traffic wax is all that is required. It sets to a good, hard, non slip surface thereby sealing the wood and brings out a rich patina . Shellac can sometimes dry off to a flakey film, and I think that wood actually needs feeding, hence wax. Hire a good floor polisher with three different buffing brushes, or invest in one. You should only need to re polish once or twice a year, and I find that the second set of brushes is adequate for keeping a goodly shine. I usually leave traffic wax down for about an hour after applying, before buffing.

 

[Moo]

Now that shows the difference between a proper person like Joss and a slut* like me.
Simply applying the wax uses up all my supply of energy and enthiusiasm. I need a good night's sleep before I can contemplate the polishing bit.



* The blessed Katherine Whitehorn's recipe for recognising a fellow slut: only sluts regard something like vacuuming the hall floor as a news item.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Thanks ladies! Moo, you're very hard on yourself - I agree, it's very hard to keep on top of all the cleaning and what thanks do we get for it? I freely admit that there are parts of my house I've NEVER cleaned, there just isn't time.

Joss- will try to get one of those machines. It sounds brilliant! I daren't not seal the floor though. Because it hasn't been sanded the surface is very uneven. This means that any wax you apply is going to slip down between the raised grain, and further down into the rough, worm eaten sections. In the last floor I did (which actually was very vigorously sanded with one of those giant floor sander machines) the wax turned the floor white between the grain. It took days of rubbing with wire wool to remove to white wax. In places, you can't get to it.

This is what Mr Newell has to say about sealing, written on this site. I find it very convincing, and Dad, who trained as a cabinet maker, says it is the approved method:


"Sealing


Why seal?

Because it is faster, cheaper and gives a much smoother final finish. Shellac is very un-reactive and forms a barrier between contaminants (especially on stripped work) and the final top coats therefore it is a good precaution to apply it to every project as it aids adhesion and therefore the ultimate strength of the applied finish. Unless you have used shellac sanding sealer before you will not be aware of its fantastic advantages, sealer is probably the most important material you will use and after staining will give you the greatest improvement in your work.

What is sealer?

Sealer is a mixture of fillers and lubrication additives suspended in shellac. It dries in about ten minutes and is ready to sand, although the longer you leave it the better it will sand. The fillers, usually mica or pumice powder, fill up the grain of the wood which reduce the sinking in of subsequent coats limiting the amount of "top coat" you need to apply. Lubrication additives such as stearates form a fine chalky white powder on sanding and help the paper to glide over the surface, this not only saves the paper getting clogged up but stops the abrasive grains tearing the finish which makes things even smoother.

How do you apply sealer and what would you use it on?

Apply with a good quality soft brush, polishing mop, or rag. Use a generous amount and work quickly. Be careful on vertical surfaces as it is very thin and you may get runs or spots if you are not used to using it. Do not be fooled by it's apparent lack of body, one coat of sealer which is sandable after ten minutes will sand far smoother than one coat of varnish which sands after twenty four hours.

Always use sealer to fix18 stains after they have dried. Leave stains as long as possible, preferably overnight, work swiftly and brush well in evening up along the grain direction. Some of the stain may bleed through so be careful not to go over an area too many times, confidence is the key.

I would always suggest that you seal before applying wax. One coat of sealer is equivalent to two or three coats of wax and is much cheaper and faster to apply. If you are waxing beams for example it is sometimes difficult to get the wax into all those nooks and crannies even with a small brush which can result in dry areas being left. It is much easier to coat the beam with shellac sealer getting into all those tricky places, then when you apply the wax not only will it go on nicer it will not matter if you miss a bit as none of the wood will be left looking dry.

For stained items one sealer coat is sufficient. If the wood is "hungry" i.e. soaks up a lot of finish then you can apply another coat. For items that are to be clear waxed I would apply two to three coats of sealer (only apply one coat for coloured staining waxes as you want the stain additive to "bite"). For floors you should thin the sealer with up to twenty percent meths and apply three or more coats. The only exception to this is oil finish, you should not pre seal any timber that you are going to oil as this will reduce penetration. For really intricate areas just thin the sealer with meths and apply an extra coat.

You should sand in between every coat you apply as a matter of rule, it may be tedious but if you want great results you have to put the effort in. I would use P240 or P320 for intercoat sanding."

 

[Penners]

Genuine shellac - believe it or not - is a sort of resinous substance produced by the Lac beetle. I think it comes from Thailand or Indonesia, and it's harvested by being scraped off the trees where the beetle deposits it (for some reason best known to itself). It's been used for generations to make varnishes and French polish.

The principle function of a sealer is to - er -seal the surface of the wood, in order to prevent the finishing coat(s) from sinking in.

Shellac is excellent for finishing fine furniture, but personally I wouldn't use it as a sealer for a floor. It's not very durable, and unless you've removed every scrap of contaminants (ie: old finishes, cleaning substances, etc.) from the floor, the shellac can tend to flake off after a while.

I'm with Jocelyn - I like Traffic wax. It's not a purely natural substance, because it has chemical additives for hardening and durability, but it's a reasonable compromise between traditional wax and modern efficacy.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Thanks for the advice Mr P!

I still think the floor needs sealing with something, even if not shellac. I should stress that this floor will peek out decoratively at strategic points under thick fluffy rugs, no shoes will be allowed.

 

[Moo]

What about a light coating of danish oil? I know it's tough, because I used it on our stairs (which, for obvious reasons, we don't polish).

 

[jocelyn plummer]

Good suggestion Moo, Danish oil/ Liberon finishing oil, are possibilities.I confess to being very anti shellac as I do not like, or approve of old wood being finished in that way. French polished antique furniture offends my eye. Wood lives and breathes, responding best to a loving stroke/buff or whatever, and whenever.Patina is a highly prized provenance of age. ( Oh well Penners, maybe you don't need that headgear after all)

 

[Penners]

Oh well Penners, maybe you don't need that headgear after all

Just as long as nobody expects me to shellac the pate.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Oil sounds good.

Chris is now saying that in its new clean state it's too light and he wants it stained the colour of a grizzly bear. So I'm wondering about killing two birds with one stone and using an oil stain.

Patina is a slippery concept, where does patina end and squalor begin? If you had seen my floor- a sea of stinking mud once scrubbed with soapy water, you'd understand, maybe, that that particular extreme of patina had to go- a bit like when I picked out the 19th century newspaper filler in the drawing room that stank of rotting dog. I felt bad, but I just couldn't live with it. In places the newspaper was so complete I could unfold it and read cricket scores of a hundred years ago.

Patina is not just colour and wax texture but also dints, chips, worm holes, bits worn smooth etc etc. The floor still has heaps of this, as I haven't machine sanded.

Wood lives on but from time to time its surface has to be refinished. Shellac isn't permanent, neither is oil, wax, or varnish.

A 18th or 19th century floor with its original finish, and just wax lovingly applied on top ever after, has got to be extremely rare. I know you had one Joss, you lucky thing!

 

[Penners]

Chris is now saying that in its new clean state it's too light and he wants it stained the colour of a grizzly bear.

Has Chris taken into account the fact that the wood may darken in colour over time (as opposed to grizzlies, which tend to go grey)? If you stain it too much, in a few years you may have something the colour of Essex mud*.




*In order to experience this, I recommend a trip to Maldon. I am NOT sending you samples.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Thanks Mr P, no he isn't taking that into account as he knows nothing about it. Is the dark that accumulates to do with accumulating dirt or a chemical process? Because as I said, most of the floor will be protected from walking on directly.

 

[JoceAndChris]

http://www.maldonmudrace.com/main.htm

This looks brilliant!

 

[Penners]

Hmmm - define "brilliant".

Assuming your floor is softwood, then its colour may richen and darken in time, due to the action of light and air on the wood. The air oxidises the resins, and the light acts as a catalyst, so areas of wood in bright light may darken more than those areas - say - under carpets or furniture.

Note my repeated use of the word "may". The degree to which the above happens depends very much on a number of variable factors: the age of the floor, the type of softwood, the degree to which your cleaning will have exposed new wood, the finish that you put on it, etc. So it's not possible to be certain about the extent of its effects at all.

One further comment about colouring the wood. Remember that applying a stain first, followed by a clear finish, will have a different effect from just applying a coloured finish. If you stain the wood, then immediately rag off the stain (ie: wipe off the surface with a lint-free cotton cloth), you will help the stain to "strike", which emphasises the figure of the grain. This is further enhanced by your clear finish. Applying a coloured finish, however, tends to blind out the grain somewhat, because you're putting a partially opaque layer on top of it.

A further disadvantage of applying a coloured finish: if it chips or wears through, the original colour of the wood "grins" through, whereas stained wood will remain roughly the same colour if its finish is chipped.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Brilliant=Mr P. It's good to have my shadowy half-knowledge clarified by your lovely, lucid prose- thanks.

Very little light will get to this floor because of all the furniture and rugs. So, as you say, it's hard to know how it will mature.

I am good at applying stain though I do say so myself (must be years of practice piling on the slap), and I agree that stain followed by clear finishes is better than coloured finishes.

I think the floor is a mixture of softwood and hardwood, my guess is pitch pine and ash. The nails holding it down look very old and hand forged; as the boards are narrow it seems unlikely to be 18th C but could well be Victorian. There is a new section let in by the door, so I'm never going to have uniformity with this.

 

[Penners]

Wonderful! Uniformity is so dull. :wink:

 

[jocelyn plummer]

Relax Joce and let light,air,dust,dirt do it's job, it'll be fine, promise. Every time you repair and clean up parts of an old property the 'new' finish shouts out 'hey look at me', but if you walk away for a day or two it begins to blend in and all the angxst is forgotten. have a G & T, :wink:

 

[JoceAndChris]

xxx Mmm, G & T, this is where I'm going wrong - haven't had one for ages!

 

[JoceAndChris]

Oil based Liberon floor sealer!!!

So glad I posted this question and was urged to use oil by you three, it's beautiful! No stain, not even waxed yet and it's rich, and dark, and lovely - thanks! This is such a rewarding job, thanks to Jaqi too for all the encouragement.

 

[Tom]

Oil based Liberon floor sealer!!!

So glad I posted this question and was urged to use oil by you three, it's beautiful! No stain, not even waxed yet and it's rich, and dark, and lovely - thanks! This is such a rewarding job, thanks to Jaqi too for all the encouragement.

Joce, it's great to hear how well your floor's doing!! I'm going to be starting mine soon, using Holkhams Linseed Oil and, hopefully, I'll be as happy as you are

PPP please......Period Property Porn aka Pics :lol:

Jaqy