This time it's about Oil Boilers

[Nemesis]

Latest news...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6524839.stm


Oh I think he's simply giving his opinion, it was the letters page after all. Many will share that view.

I write many a stiffly-worded to a variety of newspapers giving my opinions.

It's not the same as writing research backed up by evidence. Much easier and sometimes more fun!

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Latest news...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6524839.stm


Oh I think he's simply giving his opinion, it was the letters page after all. Many will share that view.

I write many a stiffly-worded to a variety of newspapers giving my opinions.

It's not the same as writing research backed up by evidence. Much easier and sometimes more fun!

But with routine applications taking up to three months and costing as much as £1,000, she said: "The local planning system should support efforts to tackle climate change rather than acting as a barrier.

Where the heck has Ruth Kelly, The Boy Wonder, got £1000 from? Householder application fee is £135 (and is set by the government so she could reduce it if she wanted to as long as some money still comes in from somewhere to cover the cost of local authorities running planning departments). Agents fee of £865 sounds rather on the high side, even at the hourly rate I'd charge if I could get away with it.

 

[Flyfisher]

Where the heck has Ruth Kelly, The Boy Wonder, got £1000 from? Householder application fee is £135 (and is set by the government so she could reduce it if she wanted to as long as some money still comes in from somewhere to cover the cost of local authorities running planning departments). Agents fee of £865 sounds rather on the high side, even at the hourly rate I'd charge if I could get away with it.

Architect fees, perhaps, and/or other design-related stuff needed for the detail required for the application? Surely the application fee is is just for the admin?

 

[Nemesis]

My worry is that in the rush to buy unsuitable stuff in the effort to be seen to be green, more energy will be used in the manufacture, transport, fitting etc etc than it will ever save.

More to quietly remove and dump in landfill?

Kelly - weeeell, it's good to be seen to be green! Probably from the same source as she got her Guardian article facts on Pathfinders.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Where the heck has Ruth Kelly, The Boy Wonder, got £1000 from? Householder application fee is £135 (and is set by the government so she could reduce it if she wanted to as long as some money still comes in from somewhere to cover the cost of local authorities running planning departments). Agents fee of £865 sounds rather on the high side, even at the hourly rate I'd charge if I could get away with it.

Architect fees, perhaps, and/or other design-related stuff needed for the detail required for the application? Surely the application fee is is just for the admin?

Well, "agent" in this context includes architect. It shouldn't need an architect to put the application together anyway but even if it did there's no way it's more than three or four hours of a professional's time to prepare an application to fit a standard product (assuming not a Listed Building or similar). Nothing much in the way of drawings and "design-related stuff" required, actually.

It's likely to be Kelly believing what she's heard (which will, if anything, be the handful - and it is a handful - of cases that are problematical, or that get refused and the applicant decides to appeal and assume - wrongly - they'll have to have a professional in to spen hours preparing their case)

And of course the Govt wants to be seen as the developer's friend so they believe the worst of the planning system because they only hear about when it goes wrong.

 

[Nemesis]

And of course the Govt wants to be seen as the developer's friend

Aye, Certs of Immunity and all that...

 

[Aidan]

I think I'm right in saying that with a thermal store, you can have mains pressure water without an expansion vessel.

The expansion vessel is required by UK water bylaws to prevent wastage, by accomodating the increased volume as the cold water is heated and expands. I believe you don't need one on any water heater of less than 15 litres. They're often not used abroad, the excess volume is discharged to waste by the PRV, or the water is allowed to expand back up the mains supply pipe.

The problem with thermal stores is that they can scale up badly in hard water areas. The store is at 80 degC+ ish and the HWS is heated by an internal pipe coil. You can get HWS coming out at 75 to 80 ish+ and it needs a TMV blending valve to reduce it to a safe temperature. Most water heaters would be limited to 60 degC, which is safe for most applications & doesn't need a TMV on the outlet, doesn't encourage legionella and minimises the deposition of limescale. Combi heat exchangers scale up for similar reasons but can't accomodate much scale before getting blocked.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Latest news...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6524839.stm


Oh I think he's simply giving his opinion, it was the letters page after all. Many will share that view.

I write many a stiffly-worded to a variety of newspapers giving my opinions.

It's not the same as writing research backed up by evidence. Much easier and sometimes more fun!

But with routine applications taking up to three months and costing as much as £1,000, she said: "The local planning system should support efforts to tackle climate change rather than acting as a barrier.

Where the heck has Ruth Kelly, The Boy Wonder, got £1000 from? Householder application fee is £135 (and is set by the government so she could reduce it if she wanted to as long as some money still comes in from somewhere to cover the cost of local authorities running planning departments). Agents fee of £865 sounds rather on the high side, even at the hourly rate I'd charge if I could get away with it.

And while I'm on my high horse about this, "three months" is balls too. We're currently determining more than 90% of applications within eight weeks, as the government requires us to do.
Having set that target, some local authorities (particularly, it seems in London, which is all ministers hear or care about) are meeting it by refusing immediately, then granting consent for a second, minimally revised, application. It's a nonsense, but if Ruth Kelly's government is going to impose a system whereby planning departments' performance is based solely on time taken rather than quality of decision, what does she expect?

 

[Nemesis]

At parish council level it's leading to complaints that they haven't the time to look at and respond to applications in the timescale given.


Not that they get taken any notice of, but consultation periods are getting shorter and any meaningful objections, especially if it means research to rubbish a so called 'justification', are increasingly difficult to make.

Given that some applications have taken years to produce and come with barrowloads of documents it's impossible really at times!

 

[AMc]

I'm still skeptical of "green" electricity.

You are right to be sceptical. There is more demand for green electricity than can be met by the current supply Most green tarriffs are (according mostly to the Green Building Bible but others too) trading Renewable Obligation Certificates (ROCs) which as far as I can determine is double counting the supply. You generate the supply renewably and you are issued with a certificate which you can then sell to another party who has failed to meet their renewable generation commitment.

We use http://www.good-energy.co.uk/renewable_energy it was easy to switch, not dramatically more expensive and the lights work just as well
"...for every unit of electricity used by a Good Energy customer we promise to buy an equivalent unit of electricity from a renewable source and supply this to the grid."

 

[Jane Smith]

We use Good Energy too. We generate power with our wind turbine; use it all; and sell it all to Good Energy. It can't enter the grid as we're not connected. But still they buy it from us, and sell it on.

A friend who is grid connected sells all the power his wind turbine generates back to Good Energy (or similar), uses the power he generates, and watches his meter turn backwards (in effect) as all the power he generates but doesn't use soaks back into the grid. His electricity supplier credits his account for that amount. So he gets paid twice for it.

Ridiculous.

 

[NT]

My search for efficiency has now taken me to air source heat pumps for summer hot water when the Aga is off. It's not as efficient as solar, but I think I might get some air conditioning for free. I'll post any progress.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Earth_Cooling_Tubes

- much more energy efficient


NT

 

[Aidan]

We use Good Energy too. We generate power with our wind turbine; use it all; and sell it all to Good Energy. It can't enter the grid as we're not connected. But still they buy it from us, and sell it on.

Que?
Is this post 3 days late?
Have the loonies achieved control of the asylum?

 

[Nemesis]

I have to admit to having probs getting my head round this.

Can I rig my old bike up to a generator and claim that money too? How about the hamster wheel?

http://www.good-energy.co.uk/home_generation

 

[piper]

Solar panels may be effective and look right on new-build energy-efficient houses, but they are not right for older properties of character.

Dr Malcolm Davison.

I now quote part of an email received today from the architect who is working on a small first-floor extension to our house (of which more in my second question below) - I'm sure he won't mind being anonymously quoted

"I think in modern buildings solar panels work acceptably from a
visual point of view but I am not convinced about them on roofs of
historic buildings like yours. I have heard of a system that is hidden
beneath slates but not seen it yet.....From the principle that hot water rises, I have always thought that the sensible place is at ground level, providing the area is not too enclosed."

Does anyone here have any knowledge of such a system?

Now my second question:
This has been (mostly) a fascinating thread - very relevant to our own situation, as we have an oil-fired "Aga Thermic" - the type of very small Aga made, I think, briefly in the 50's/60's for use in smaller houses. It supplies masses of scalding hot water, keeps the kitchen warm and dry, so the rest of the house often needn't be heated. It dries the washing on Cumbria's frequent wet days, as well as being used for cooking. In short we would be very loath to do without it, and have now enjoyed it for twenty years. But it doesn't power any radiators, (supposedly too small) and so we also have a gas boiler to supply radiators in the rest of the house - fitted about 17 years ago. There is a traditional vented hot-water tank upstairs, supplied by the Aga, and the gas C/H system has the normal short DHW coil going through it in the traditional way, though I imagine this is of very little use, and in practice the two systems are not really integrated, and must be very inefficient.
Oil and gas are both increasingly expensive - and it now seems very profligate to have far more hot water than we really need, as well as burning two lots of fossil fuel. The kitchen is single-storey, and this new room is to go above it - so the pipes will all have to be moved and the opportunity is there to replan the whole system for something better integrated and more efficient. So I'm thinking that the heat-store idea, supplied by both Aga and gas, (and possibly in due course solar) might be a route to go in order to get at least some C/H from the Aga. Does this make sense?
We had hoped to dispense with insulation in the ceiling/floor between the kitchen and the new room, so as to use the rising Aga heat directly, but it seems this is contrary to building regs, so there will have to be full insulation and radiator or U/F in the "upper room", which could be just a separate miniature system supplied by the Aga, or integrated into the rest of the house. Can I throw this interesting problem open to the experts here assembled?

 

[Nemesis]

I know nothing about oil boilers...


I think in modern buildings solar panels work acceptably from a
visual point of view but I am not convinced about them on roofs of
historic buildings like yours. I have heard of a system that is hidden
beneath slates but not seen it yet.....From the principle that hot water rises, I have always thought that the sensible place is at ground level, providing the area is not too enclosed."

Does anyone here have any knowledge of such a system?

I agree with your architect. I haven't seen the hidden system but I think it might be just a matter of time...

Yes I've seen solar panels mounted on the ground, at an angle, to heat a swimming pool.

No reason why they should be only mounted on a roof, apart from the fact possibly they can catch more sun there in most places and it's a short pipe run to the tank.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

No reason why they should be only mounted on a roof, apart from the fact possibly they can catch more sun there in most places .

Yes, and they're closer to the sun on the roof, aren't they? :wink:

 

[Nemesis]

Well, in the overall scheme of things not a lot... but on the ground many will be in the shadow of the house for a fair part of the day possibly. Not sure how long pipe runs are dealt with but no doubt there's a way round every problem.

 

[piper]

Not sure how long pipe runs are dealt with but no doubt there's a way round every problem.

Here's one way

http://www.radiantcompany.com/system/evacuated.shtml

 

[Nemesis]

[Open Image] [Hosted by PhotoGalaxy.com]


That's an er... interesting building!


The info looks useful also...