The UK Low Carbon Transition Plan

[JoceAndChris]

Oh, I thought of 2 more by the way. "Let your clopper be your shopper", and "The planet's wonky, get a donkey!"

 

[worms]

I'm afraid I had to recognise when I am beaten after your "don't burn fuel, get a mule".

Don't stop at the garage, use a horse & carriage!

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Joce, some very good points, although I'm pretty sure it's not silverfish or stag beetles you'd die for!

I don't think anyone on here is shouting (not these days, anyway!). Biff has some very valid arguments, and it must be intensely frustrating to him that we don't share his urgency or belief that setting a global example will stave off the threat of potential human extinction. In just the same way, we find "ethnical" environmentalism frustrating too.

We all find our own moral/ethical balance - I've told some of you about the work I did last year in a rural Ethiopian hospital. That I can feel that level of human kinship on the one hand, and yet be only interested in my own children/grandchildren's future, is perhaps schizophrenic. It all comes down to scale I guess, and the fact that I think our own economic impoverishment is a futile answer to GW is perfectly rational.

The wider philosophical question of if and how we can have responsibility to future unborn generations is an interesting debate. Given the scale of it all, the only responsibility I feel is to my own kin. And the only one I would hold you to is your kin. Does that all add up to global actions for the future - don't think so.

Now, not for Lincolnshire of course: If it's hilly, get a filly!

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Or, Let a mare get you there*

In order to allow those less interested on the great moral arguments of this thread progress, I suggest putting the humourous bits in bold

 

[Flyfisher]

A pony & trap is where it's at.

 

[biffvernon]

None of which has much to do with period properties.

The insight we can bring to the table is our knowledge of pre-industrial (and pre large scale fossil fuel use) building construction methods. By using natural materials with little processing, such as timber, earth, stone and straw, rather than steel, cement and plastics, we can reduce the environmental consequences of maintaining our housing stock.

But we have to be smart, not revert to some pre-industrial idyll but live well in the 21st century in a way that leaves the 22nd century a possibility for our descendants. Ethics has to take future generations into account or it is nothing. To consider less is to deny our humanity.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

None of which has much to do with period properties.

One of the pleasures of this forum, I'd say, is the way it rambles around. I guess your initial link between GW and period properties (they'll be underwater if we're not careful!) was fairly tenuous... :wink:

By using natural materials with little processing, such as timber, earth, stone and straw, rather than steel, cement and plastics, we can reduce the environmental consequences of maintaining our housing stock.

Where does lime fit into this I wonder. We all use it and advocate it, but presumably its industrial scale production has left its mark in terms of deforestation, quarrying, transporation, etc, etc. Never really considered it before. Did my antecedents consider their ethical responsibility to me, before embarking upon such unsustainable industrialisation? :shock:

Don't be dilly-dallyin' - get a stallion (groan )

 

[FamilyWiggs]

let's move on and discuss adapting Period Properties for the 21st century. I'm making some double glazed windows for a 16th century mud and stud cottage today.

Biff - very interested in these. (How) have you overcome the glazing bars issue? I recall hearing about a company in Edinburgh I think, that was making very thin DG units that could accommodate thinner glazing bars. Should have noted the name and Googled them.

Any chance of any pics (and apologies for dragging the thread back to period properties!)

 

[biffvernon]

setting an example as a small nation won't, in my view, bring the errant nations of the world to their collective senses.

Maybe not, but that doesn't stop Tuvalu trying: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8158604.stm They join the Maldives, whose president can be seen adressing the issue in the video here: http://notstupid.org/

And it should not stop us trying.

 

[biffvernon]

Biff - very interested in these. (How) have you overcome the glazing bars issue? I recall hearing about a company in Edinburgh I think, that was making very thin DG units that could accommodate thinner glazing bars. Should have noted the name and Googled them.

Any chance of any pics (and apologies for dragging the thread back to period properties!)

What glazing bars issue would that be? I'm not too keen on those slimlite units - they have to be filled with krypton or xenon which are much rarer, and so more expensive, than argon. There's probably a place for them in some situations but, no, I don't use them. The windows for this cottage will have glazing bars about 33mm wide. That's a good bit less than the bog-standard factory made softwood windows that are common these days but wider than was typical in much late Georgian and Victorian work. More Queen Anne. But I make 21st century windows not repro.

Not quite ready for a photo yet

 

[FamilyWiggs]

setting an example as a small nation won't, in my view, bring the errant nations of the world to their collective senses.

Maybe not, but that doesn't stop Tuvalu trying: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8158604.stm They join the Maldives, whose president can be seen adressing the issue in the video here: http://notstupid.org/

And it should not stop us trying.

Biff, I doubt that the 12,000 Tuvaluans will bring the Chinese to the table, and really it just highlights the argument about futility.

Tuvalu is 4.5m above sea level at the highest point - I think we can agree it's pretty much screwed. It has very few natural resources and the vast majority of food and other goods are shipped or flown in; hence their pledge is to become carbon neutral in terms of power, not all of its activities. You could easily argue that trying to maintain 12,000 people on 9 volcanic atolls in the middle of the pacific with no natural resource, food or fresh water is probably the height of unsutainable living!

:shock: :shock: :shock:

It will cost $20m for the nation to switch entirely to renewables. This country in the 195th poorest on the planet (of 229 nations) - sandwiched between those economic giants Lesotho and Senegal with a per capita income of just $1600 per year. If I was a Tuvaluan interested in the future of my children/grandchildren, I'd be suggesting we pocket the $50m from the .tv internet domain, and share out that $20m for renewables between us and evacuate the islands to Australia.

It might not send a trendy message to the world, but it would be more carbon neutral than transporting all that food there, against the inevitability of needing a snorkel to find the fridge in a few decades time. Much more sustainable?

source: CIA World Factbook. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/TV.html

 

[skier-hughes]

The money from the .tv domain name was used to build a road infrastructure and is, as far as I know, all but gone.
I've been doing a lot of work for people who have been working with Tuvalians, and they are already moving en-mass.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Not quite ready for a photo yet

But you will post some, soon?

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Don't be an ass, it's as clear as glass*

*doesn't work with my accent - try something northern, like Cumbrian.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Or even, "unctuous".

Do try and get it right... personally I'd have gone with "oleaginous".

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Bah - you've edited it already.

 

[biffvernon]

Well if you insist on hijacking this thread to give my website a bit of free publicity you may as well look at my other one about a little project in low-carbon building at The Faerie House. Maybe one day it will be a Period Property from way back in the early 21st century, but I rather fancy that it will become fodder for marine worms.

Oriel, this forum is what it is because of the people who post here. If folk don't want to read about a particular topic then that's fine. I certainly skip the topics or posts that seem to be about ego-boosting, so they don't offend me. I guess if we believe in freedom of speech we have to accept that some idiots will write complete tosh. A shrug of the shoulders and a 'whatever' may be the best response. It would, of course, be nice if people looked at each sentence they write and consider for a moment what it contributes to the community before hitting the submit button. But then I'm a utopian.

I guess I'm a bit disappointed by a lot of the posts on this thread. I started it because I think that the recent government white paper, The UK Low Carbon Transition Plan, has enormous implications for our historic building stock. Weaving a path through the sometimes conflicting demands of the future of our heritage is going to be tricky. Those of us who care about old things need to be particularly aware of the dangers that the future presents so that we may better protect what we love.

Here's a question - How many of us here have a solar panel on their house? Intend getting one in the future? Can't? Won't?
Ok, that so that was four questions.

 

[Moo]

How many of us here have a solar panel on their house? Intend getting one in the future?

I don't have one yet, but will as soon as I find a system that I can afford and that really does the job.
Does anyone here have any recommendations?

 

[biffvernon]

Yeah, you're right, Oriel. Oh and welcome to the forum. It's good to see that someone new has joined in. Hope you can raise the tone of the place by contributing stuff about old houses and not worrying about the twits or descending to level of personal abuse that has sometimes happened and put off the good folk who you mention.

 

[skier-hughes]

How many of us here have a solar panel on their house? Intend getting one in the future?

I don't have one yet, but will as soon as I find a system that I can afford and that really does the job.
Does anyone here have any recommendations?

I intend to, and was hoping to have one going on soon, but got two people round for quotes, one sent quote but when asked for further information has not yet been able to give it, the other also spent half a day here and hasn't even bothered to send in a quote. They both came in May. First quote is for nearly £20k, so it's not exactly a little project. So I'm no further forward and would also like some reccomendations of people who can supply fit solar and wood boilers.

 

[worms]

It's good to see that someone new has joined in.

Surely a "welcome back", is more appropriate?