The General Election Thread

[Flyfisher]

And what about Jody McIntyre, unable to climb cenotaphs and swing on flags since his cerebral palsy confines him to a wheelchair? A student protesting lawfully.

I'm not really sure where you're going with all this Biff. I don't think anyone here is condoning the heavy handedness of the police but, let's be honest, if the protest hadn't been hijacked by a small faction seemingly only interested in violence and destruction then no one would have got hurt.

Climbing the cenotaph and swinging on a flag may not have hurt anyone directly but it's precisely such things that spur impressionable people on to rather more violent acts, as we have seen. Left to their own devices, the rioters would have undoubtedly have caused far more destruction that they did. A baying mob is a frightening thing. What would you have the police do - just let them get on with it?

 

[biffvernon]

I believe, Flyfisher, that you have it completely wrong.

This piece is long and it is serious. It is written by Peter Hallward, professor of Modern European Philosophy at Kingston University. Alfie Meadows is one of his students. It is published in the Times Higher Education Supplement.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=26&storycode=414573&c=2


This video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQV9P61FUwg shows, towards the end, the attack by the police on wheelchair-bound Joy McIntyre. One would have to be at least as determined a pacifist as me to avoid reacting violently to such criminal behaviour on the part of our police force.

 

[Flyfisher]

Long and serious, yes, but it's just an account of what actually happened, with little analysis of why the police behaved the way they did. Neither you or the article have addressed the issue of what the police should have done in the face of the violence and destruction. And no, before you think I'm condoning the injuries cause by the police, I'm not. At all. Which is why I'd like to hear about how they could have better handled the situation whilst still preventing the wanton violence and destruction.

 

[biffvernon]

What wanton violence and destruction was there before the police got heavy?

 

[Nigel Watts]

I defer to others' knowledge of the genesis of Pink Floyd, but that interpretation of the lyric, which noone has refuted, was doing the rounds when I was at Cambridge so my argument stands I think.

Attempted arson differs from arson. The clue is in the word "attempted". The fact that the fire did not take makes it attempted. Again my point stands. You will also note from the photo that he has some wooden kindling in the hand not operating the lighter. The hero of the hour appears to have been a fellow student protestor who altered the police. It would be nice to see some praise for this responsible young person rather than vain attempt to defend the spoilt young thug Gilmore.

 

[Flyfisher]

I defer to others' knowledge of the genesis of Pink Floyd, but that interpretation of the lyric, which noone has refuted, was doing the rounds when I was at Cambridge so my argument stands I think.

That interpretation made me curious. I found this article, which discusses lots of possibilities but never once mentions the Cambridge college lawns theory.

I can understand why students at Cambridge might create and promulgate such an interpretation, but it doesn't seem to be one that has travelled very far beyond the college gates. Also, the "the lunatic is in the hall" is not part of the quoted verse and actually continues " the paper holds their folded faces to the floor/and everyday the paperboy brings more", which seems to be a rather thinly veiled reference to daily newspapers rather than university halls.

Overall, the song seems more likely to be about a general descent into insanity inspired by the problems experiences by Syd Barrett and is a repeated theme throughout the whole Dark Side Of The Moon album.

 

[Penners]

the song seems more likely to be about a general descent into insanity inspired by the problems experiences by Syd Barrett and is a repeated theme throughout the whole Dark Side Of The Moon album.

I entirely agree. And I've heard that view confirmed by both David Gilmour and Roger Waters in separate interviews.

 

[Pford75]

Gilmour jailed for 16 months......


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-14150800

 

[Feltwell]

Which does seem rather harsh to me, when you consider the sentences handed out for some other more serious offences.

 

[Flyfisher]

Coincidentally, that was my first thought when I heard the news earlier today. Then I concluded that it wasn't a case of this particular sentence being rather harsh but more a case of other sentences being rather lenient.

 

[Penners]

Coincidentally, that was my first thought when I heard the news earlier today. Then I concluded that it wasn't a case of this particular sentence being rather harsh but more a case of other sentences being rather lenient.

WELL SAID, FF!!

 

[DaveBrigg]

That's Tory economic reform. We saw it in the 80's, with the resulting riots, recession, strikes and mass unemployment. It happened again in early 90's. Brace yourselves for a repeat if things go the wrong way on Thursday.

Original post 5th May 2010. Today, the last of the four horsemen officially arrived. If only predicting the lottery numbers were as easy.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Yes, I get the same howls of anguish when I tell my kids at the end of the day that it is time to stop eating loads of sweets, wash their hands so they don't get ill and go to bed so they're not tired in the morning.

Doesn't make me wrong, just unpopular.

Bit like the British political cycle. One "nice" party always borrows unsustainably to fritter money that doesn't belong to it on things that make people happy. When it all inevitably falls apart we look to the "nasty" party to come in, rein in spending and repair the economy and do unpleasant things. Rinse and repeat.

The first party is the Custody Saturday Dad, treating the Hyperactive child. The second party is the hardworking single mother doing the thankless grind day in day out to turn out a decent adult.

Why can't people see this? :wink: :roll:

 

[d49xc]

'cos they are thick......

Like the person on the MSE site moaning about why Tesco sent them money off vouchers for things they did NOT buy and why didn't Tesco send them vouchers instead for those varieties that they DID buy.
No amount of explaining by many other forum members that a) this was Tesco's way of persuading them to buy things that they would not nomally buy and b) why on earth should Tesco's give them money off things they were going to buy anyway, could make this person understand.

 

[Flyfisher]

Talk about clutching at straws. These figures are down in the noise level of the statistics. If the figure in question (only a provisional one anyway and subject to later revision I believe) was +0.2% instead of -0.2% is would have been hailed as conclusive proof of economic recovery. :roll: It's all political posturing either way.

Politicians have access to the best economic minds on the planet yet they (all of them, across the whole political spectrum) consistently fail to manage things effectively because such things are fundamentally uncontrollable. Meanwhile it suits the political machines to have people arguing over party political dogma because it gives them hope that if only 'the other lot get it' then we'll have a miraculous turnaround. We haven't seen that since the last change of government and we won't see it if there was another change tomorrow. Still, it's a good way to sell newspapers I suppose.

Keep calm and carry on.

 

[Penners]

These figures are down in the noise level of the statistics. Keep calm and carry on.

Hoorah for the voice of common sense! I vote for FF as editor of the Daily Mail.

 

[Flyfisher]

I'd never get the job - it's sensationalism and a touch of hysteria that sells newspapers, like calling for resignations before the due process of an inquiry has been fully completed. :roll:

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Meanwhile it suits the political machines to have people arguing over party political dogma because it gives them hope that if only 'the other lot get it' then we'll have a miraculous turnaround.

I beg to differ. The weather is always better under my lot - as the current lovely drought hammering against the windows bears witness! 8)

 

[Feltwell]

We sway (as a nation) one way for a few years, the party goes a bit too far and things start to go wrong, then we sway the other way for a few years, the party goes a bit too far and things start to go wrong, repeat ad infinitum.

I would advocate a middle ground approach except the party that occupies that area have such a recent history of being spectacularly ineffective!

 

[Flyfisher]

Perhaps things started going wrong when governments stayed in power for a decade or so, allowing their various barmy ideas to gain more traction than when it was all change every 4 years or so and not too much harm could accumulate.

Actually, didn't Belgium recently go through an extended period of not having a government at all? Perhaps we could try that next? :lol: