Replacement 'Period' Window Glass.

[MatthewC]

Our Conservation Officer explained it to us as this - if it's needs LBC then it is zero rated, if it's anything else i.e. refurbishment or replacement, then it's not. Was a lot easier than trying to get my head around the HMRC booklet!

But surely that's a bit of a circular argument? Our council's view on LBC is that, if in doubt, apply for it and they will authorize it even though specific permission was not needed! In my case the permission for our plumbing is so general and vaguely worded that everything qualifies as an alteration, even though I know it's not. (They didn't say "permission not needed".)

Matthew
http://houseintheenchantedforest.blogspot.com/

 

[Keithj]

Back to the original post...

We had the glazier visit today to sort out the glass requirements for our extension. I mentioned "Tudor glass" and replacing broken panels.

He suggested horticultural glass as the most practical reasonably priced solution. HOWEVER ... he said that if you replace glass in a door or a window, it's not permitted to use "ordinary" glass. It has to be either toughened or laminated.

There is a solution - the plain glass can be "laminised" (a new word to me). A transparent plastic film is attached. It's invisible, but prevents it from shattering - and meets the new law.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Back to the original post...

We had the glazier visit today to sort out the glass requirements for our extension. I mentioned "Tudor glass" and replacing broken panels.

He suggested horticultural glass as the most practical reasonably priced solution. HOWEVER ... he said that if you replace glass in a door or a window, it's not permitted to use "ordinary" glass. It has to be either toughened or laminated.

There is a solution - the plain glass can be "laminised" (a new word to me). A transparent plastic film is attached. It's invisible, but prevents it from shattering - and meets the new law.

It's a while since I've had a look at the Building Regs, but it used to be the case that only glass within a certain distance from the floor (where a child might run into it) or within a certain distance of a door handle (where you might thrust a hand through) had to be toughened, and then only in new build.
The "film treatment" had been done to the lower sashes of the cottage I stayed in at Portmeirion a couple of weeks ago, which may be because of Elfin Safety concerns at a hotel. It would have been invisible, except that the firm responsible had put a little disc with their details on it behind the film on every pane they'd done :?

 

[Keithj]

I'm only going by what this chap said. He is producing double-glazed units for us, and seems to know what he's on about. His point was that while existing glass can remain as long is it's not broken, ANY replacement glass in a door must be replaced with toughened or laminated, and window glass below some height above ground likewise. The age of the building makes no difference (he said).

Probably elfin safety again - I meet a lot of that these days.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

The relevant document appears to be Document N
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADN_1998.pdf
The Building Regs do not, it appears, relate to reglazing existing windows, though supply of glass for this purpose may fall under consumer protection legislation. I have never actually "consumed" a window...

 

[Johnboy]

Off topic I know but I have just had a quote for a single replacement sealed unit damaged by some 'little dears' with a half-brick, the first question the glazier asked was
'Is the window less than 800mm from the floor, if so it will need toughened glass fitted'. This is a direct replacement in a 25yr old property :?:

 

[JoceAndChris]

Oh, dear, poor Keith! It sounds as if your tradesman is not interpreting the law as sensitively as our Conservation Officer above. I certainly never came across that when we were burgled last year and had to replace the door glass - little Regency diamond shaped panes. Fortunately I had original glass in the workshop from a porch renovation 20 years ago and found a friendly heritagey joiner to pop that in. (chose a joiner as there was wood repair too)

As they're very fond of saying in Lincolnshire when they're about to do something bad, Ooo's to say, Ooo's to know. If you were to sell your property next year, the windows could have gone in 15 years ago! If you find a tradesman to comply with your wishes, where is the problem?

I'm not going to be troubled with regulations like this, unless they happen to suit.

 

[biffvernon]

A NEW door or window next to a door or window whose bottom is lower than 800mm from the floor has to be toughened or laminated to comply with Buildings Regs. Small pieces of glass in doors can be 6mm glass.

Repairs of broken glass in existing doors and windows don't come under Buildings Regs.

If money is no object, Tatra glass at Loughborough will laminate a sheet of P1 onto a sheet of toughened float - strength with beauty.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Useful, thanks Biff.

 

[AMc]

It's not ANY window glass but it is any within 800mm of the floor. There are good reasons for this and I would strongly suggest that you think about your own use and the occupation of the house as well as visitors and future occupants before you decide to use regular plate glass.

Before these 'silly rules' existed as a 9 year old child we lived in a new build house and I had a row with my older brother. I slammed the front door in a his face as he chased me into the house. The door had a pane of float glass in the top and another in the bottom with a rail in the middle with the letter box in it. He tried to use his hands on the middle rail to stop, but missed and stuck both hands through the bottom of the top pane. The glass broke in to a couple of large sharp bits which popped out at me but missed and the rest of the glass hung in the door above his hands. In an alternate universe I would have been badly cut and he would have lost his hands when the rest of the glass fell down.

On another occasion in the same house he kicked a football through the lower pane of the back door while my mum and I were in the room - this time it broke into a fistful of dagger shaped shards which were propelled with enough force to embed themselves 1/2 an inch into the wooden kitchen stool.

It makes sense to make sure that glass in doors won't shatter and splinter should they break.

{edited for typos}

 

[Penners]

Repairs of broken glass in existing doors and windows don't come under Buildings Regs.

You try telling that to a glass merchant. I've had supply refused on the basis that I wanted to put 3mm glass into an existing glazed door. And I've had a different glass merchant cut a piece of horticultural glass for me (cut down from the standard 24" x 24") with the words, "so long as it's only for use in a greenhouse".

 

[LadyArowana]

You try telling that to a glass merchant. I've had supply refused on the basis that I wanted to put 3mm glass into an existing glazed door. And I've had a different glass merchant cut a piece of horticultural glass for me (cut down from the standard 24" x 24") with the words, "so long as it's only for use in a greenhouse".

So are greenhouses made of regular glass? or was he meaning some sort of cold frame arrangement? surely you are just as likely to have an accident with it as a house windows/doors, maybe more so given that gardening requires all sorts of "things".*

*so I'm told, last time I went to the lovely garden shop in London I left with black snakeskin effect wellingtons

 

[Penners]

So are greenhouses made of regular glass? or was he meaning some sort of cold frame arrangement? surely you are just as likely to have an accident with it as a house windows/doors, maybe more so given that gardening requires all sorts of "things".

Did you intend to ask whether greenhouses are made of glass that arrives on a weekly basis? Or did you perhaps mean "ordinary" glass? I do apologise - I'm afraid my command of the American language is poor.

Greenhouses are made of horticultural glass - poor quality (in terms of its flatness/smoothness/freedom from flaws) 3mm thick glass.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Black snakeskin wellies. Goodness me. When are you coming for a digging holiday, dear Lady A?

It's good to see that dear Mr P isn't letting any standards slip. :lol:

Just in answer to AMc's point, whilst I'm very glad the glass accident did not turn out as horrifically as it could have done, I'm not really overly sympathetic to childhood injuries. It will make me sound an old bag I'm sure, but children of yesteryear knew that fire is hot, that falling in wells can mean drowning, etc etc. What kind of children are we raising these days? Namby pamby whinging molly-coddled little nuisances, from what I've seen. :twisted:

 

[Penners]

Namby pamby whinging molly-coddled little nuisances, from what I've seen.

Joce - how could you? That's absolutely disgraceful! :evil:

"Namby-pamby" should be hyphenated, and there should be an "e" in "whingeing".







:wink:

 

[LadyArowana]

Did you intend to ask whether greenhouses are made of glass that arrives on a weekly basis? Or did you perhaps mean "ordinary" glass? I do apologise - I'm afraid my command of the American language is poor.

Greenhouses are made of horticultural glass - poor quality (in terms of its flatness/smoothness/freedom from flaws) 3mm thick glass.

:lol: Yes, "ordinary glass" was what I meant, but you are correct that I have spent much too much time around non Britsh english speakers.

Joce, not sure my digging would be up to the high standards required at BC, but if I didn't have a big to do list for my upcoming trip I would start my apprenticeship.

 

[AMc]

[comment in haste repent at leisure]

 

[Penners]

That's the trouble with you, AMc - verbal diarrhoea. :wink:

 

[Flyfisher]

No, that dot is shorthand for 'oops, on second thoughts, perhaps I shouldn't have posted that comment but now I can't delete it' :wink:

I'm sure I've got a few similar posts scattered around this forum.

 

[AMc]

Just in answer to AMc's point, whilst I'm very glad the glass accident did not turn out as horrifically as it could have done, I'm not really overly sympathetic to childhood injuries. It will make me sound an old bag I'm sure, but children of yesteryear knew that fire is hot, that falling in wells can mean drowning, etc etc. What kind of children are we raising these days? Namby pamby whinging molly-coddled little nuisances, from what I've seen. :twisted:

I was one of the children of yesteryear at the time (late 70s).

I've seen more glass broken by adults than children - usually when alcohol has impaired their co-ordination.

The consequences of breaking a window should be a lesson in the use of the dust pan and brush, the value of pocket money at the glaziers and perhaps the correct application of linseed putty. I don't think its necessary for them to need a trip to casualty or bodily scarring for that lesson to be learnt. If that's namby pamby coddling then I'm guilty as charged.