"Point of use" water heating

[Penners]

I understand Penners may have had a proper edukashun in grammar - he'll be along shortly to correct us.

Penners' wafer-thin veneer of grammatical respectability crumbles at this point. I think I would find what computer boffins call a "work-around", by saying' "the boat of my parents-in-law", as in:

The boat of my parents-in-law is on the bureau of my uncle.

 

[Feltwell]

Perhaps I'm stating the obvious, however it is not where the hot water cylinder is that matters, it is where the cold tank supplying it is positioned that is important.

Good point! Alas the cold header tank is slightly below the level of the sink in question. It's in another room in the attic, but mounted on the floor (which is slightly lower than the room with the sink in it anyway). To move it to a higher position would be very awkward.

Well, to drag an old topic back up again and prove that I do occasionally finish a job...

In the end I opted to move the cold tank - and it was very awkward, just as I predicted. I created an access into the previously sealed "loft" space (which, as this is an attic room, is just a small triangular space under the ridge of the roof) - turns out there is just enough room for someone of my size (not small! ) to crawl about up there. I've managed to get a "coffin" style cold water tank to fit up there, plus also moved the heating header tank up there and insulate properly.

The hard bit was getting the pipe runs up to the space, not wanting to have lots of surface mounted pipe running up a bedroom wall. In the end the void in a lath and plaster wall came to the rescue.

Why go to all the hassle? Well, it solved several problems:-

- Gives enough head to make the hot feed to the sink work, the main objective, without the noise / expense / future maintenance of a pump.
- Gets rid of a big cold water tank sat on the landing of our attic
- Gets rid of the central heating header tank, which was mounted high up on the wall of the attic room, boxed in (badly) - with all the pipes running up to it. It looked a right mess.

 

[robgil]

Lots of suffolk flanges around here, ive heard essex flanges are easier though.

 

[CatherineB]

:lol: Feltwell, has that taken you since May? Must've been complicated!

(PS you can laugh at me when I finally finish stripping the paper of my stairs :roll: )

 

[Feltwell]

Well - it's taken me since May to get round to doing it! There's planning time you know, very important for a chap...... :wink:

 

[Penners]

Planning, yes, but prior to that there's assessment. That's a lengthy and complex business, involving innumerable cups of coffee. It also seems to work better if there are plenty of Kit-Kats.

Feltwell old chap - forgive my (almost certainly un-necessary) concern, but I presume the roof collars upon which you have rested your new header tanks are well up to the job? Remember that a litre of water weighs a kilo. Hence a header tank of, say, 250 litres will weigh more than a quarter of a tonne (the weight of water water plus the weight of the tank, etc).

 

[Feltwell]

Penners, the concern is appreciated. It did bother me when I first had the idea to put the tank up there, but on further thought I was sure it would be ok.

The tank is resting on ceiling joists, which are in turn fixed to rafters. This is up at the very apex of the roof - a little flat section of ceiling at the very top of an attic room with mostly sloping ceilings, so the joists are short, no more than 5'. The tank is to one side so is close to the rafters.

The tank is not a large one - 25 gallons, which is the same as the old tank - which equates to 114 litres. The tank itself weighs very little, so say 125 kg all in when full. This is only slightly heavier than me (I did say I wasn't small! ).

It's mounted on a nice thick bit of ply. Being a long thin "coffin" tank it spans 5 joists - so each joist gets 25kg to carry. I've been crawling about up there with nearly all my weight on my knees, resting in the middle of a single joist - so say 100kg loading - with no problem, no sign at all of any movement or distress. 25kg per joist isn't much really.

Not terribly scientific but it will do for me!

P.S. Rich Tea's I find work best for planning, with a nice cup of tea of course. Plain chocolate hob-nobs if I'm feeling extravagant, can't dunk those though.

 

[Penners]

Sounds good - I thought my concern would be un-necessary!

By the way, Rich Tea are absolutely useless for assessment purposes. The lack of chocolate is a serious impediment to creative thought.

 

[Feltwell]

Penners, dear chap, I must take issue with your outrageous slur on the humble, faithful little biscuit that is the Rich Tea.

It is made to be dunked - and dunking without doubt aids whole the thought process. Hob-nobs are good as well but are a bit new to this game - the Digestive is a suitable substitute if Rich Tea's classic proportions and simplicity do not appeal.

Chocolate biscuits and dunking - well, it's just wrong. On so many levels.

 

[Penners]

Well now you're straying on to dangerous ground. The Dunking Debate could rapidly overtake Tuition Fees in its controversy.

In my view, dunking is an irresponsible habit, risking not only a soggy biscuit but also bits of sludge in the bottom of the mug.

Biscuit and beverage should only mingle under intestinal circumstances.

 

[JoceAndChris]

I'm afraid Penners is right Feltwell. Dunking is a vile habit!

 

[Penners]

Penners is right

Joce - please would you embroider those words in gold thread and present the finished work to Mrs P?

 

[skier-hughes]

In my view, dunking is an irresponsible habit, risking not only a soggy biscuit but also bits of sludge in the bottom of the mug.

This is most definately a right wing tory ploy to keep oiks out of the upper echelons!

 

[Feltwell]

Well now you're straying on to dangerous ground. The Dunking Debate could rapidly overtake Tuition Fees in its controversy.

In my view, dunking is an irresponsible habit, risking not only a soggy biscuit but also bits of sludge in the bottom of the mug.

Biscuit and beverage should only mingle under intestinal circumstances.

Have you been reading the Daily Mail again Penners? :roll:

Life without risk is sterile - and what finer risk and display of skill than that required to keep the biscuit just lubricated, but not soggy, and with no bits of biscuit falling off into the mug (which is a disaster quite frankly).

All you Tories should be hanging your heads in shame. If this namby-pamby risk averse attitude had pervaded in the war we'd all be filling out our risk assessments in German right now. :wink:

Now - if you want a "vile habit" related to food, then what on earth possesses people to take a beautiful crisp salad - brimming with goodness, bursting with flavour and crisp crunchy texture just as nature intended - and then pour a vile concoction of oil and/or vinegar all over it, turning it into a oily, vinegary, slimy shadow of it's former self. Now that's vile.

(it's just my argument versus most of the rest of the planet - what can possibly go wrong!)

 

[skier-hughes]

I'm with you all the way with the salad, but I'm a lover of hot tea, custard creams and ooops dropped one in, quickly drink tea and tehn suck out the real soggy biscuit...........

 

[worms]

Whatever happened to Gipsy Creams?

 

[Penners]

Now - if you want a "vile habit" related to food, then what on earth possesses people to take a beautiful crisp salad - brimming with goodness, bursting with flavour and crisp crunchy texture just as nature intended - and then pour a vile concoction of oil and/or vinegar all over it, turning it into a oily, vinegary, slimy shadow of it's former self. Now that's vile.

At last we've reached our own Cancun, Feltwell. We're in full agreement (without irrevocably committing ourselves to do anything about the problem that we have identified).

Salad dressing is indeed vile.

 

[Penners]

Whatever happened to Gipsy Creams?

worms - what a sad and pathetic cry!

I shall seek out a packet and let you know whether they still exist. I do hope that will restore some hope to your world.

 

[skier-hughes]

Oh dear what vile words to be written, please no more, but to answer your question

Traveller's Biscuit

Two pounds flour, three quarters of a pound of sugar, a quarter of a pound of butter, one teaspoonful of dissolved salge-ratus, milk sufficient to form a dough. Cut up the butter in the flour and the sugar, and put in the salaeratus and milk together, so as to form a dough. Knead it till it becomes perfectly smooth and light. Roll it in sheets about the eighth of an inch thick, cut the cakes with a cutter, or the top of a tumbler. Bake in a moderate oven.

 

[worms]

It's not that I miss them, but that I had cause recently to remember them as a something that you used to see regularly but didn't seem to exist anymore. I'm not a "dunker" but used to know people who would dunk the gipsy cream until it dissolved into the tea - not a pretty sight!