Period borehole

[Flyfisher]

I'm not entirely surprised at that cost. When we had our gas connected the pipework across our garden was about 30m and the chap that came out to plan the job advised us to arrange digging the trench ourselves because they would simply subcontract it and it would cost us a small fortune. I never did get that description quantified but a local 'man-with-a-mini-digger' did the whole job in one day for £200.

Some of the farmers near us abstract water from the river during the winter and store it in large reservoirs for use during the summer. The pumps seem to be housed in a small metal 'container' about the size of a very small garden shed, but they connect to 4-inch pipes rather than a small domestic pipe, so I'd hope things would be much smaller for Joce's supply.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

I need to find out exactly what this pumping station is.

Do you happen to know how much higher you are than the water level in the local water tower (wherever it may be)?

Raw water is transferred from Rutland Water Reservoir via the Ruthamford raw water main to
Saltersford Water Treatment Works where it is processed into potable water. There is a consented
intake available from the River Witham but this is only used in emergency situations.
Potable water is pumped from the treatment works to the water reservoirs located on the high
points to the west and east of Grantham from where it gravitates through a series of pipes to serve
the catchment.

The nearest (covered) reservoirs are on the same contour line as Jocelyn's house. Though it would be interesting to know how the properties on Hall Road to the east are supplied since some of them are at the same elevation.

 

[Penners]

it would be interesting to know how the properties on Hall Road to the east are supplied since some of them are at the same elevation.

Yes, that seems very relevant. And if Joce's house is on the same contour line as the reservoir, does the reservoir itself provide the head of water, or are there higher water towers?

 

[JoceAndChris]

Very sweet of you all to take an interest and try to help!

Not too sure about how they manage on Hall Rd - I'll take a walk and ask. I do know that on Coldharbour Lane where our nearest road is, which is a lot higher up than Beacon Lane, the pressure is pretty awful and they struggle to get proper showers.

 

[Penners]

But at least they have mains water!

 

[Gareth Hughes]

it would be interesting to know how the properties on Hall Road to the east are supplied since some of them are at the same elevation.

Yes, that seems very relevant. And if Joce's house is on the same contour line as the reservoir, does the reservoir itself provide the head of water, or are there higher water towers?

The east side of town, where Joce is, seems to be supplied from the covered reservoirs, the west side has a 75 foot (ish) water tower whose base is between the 115m and 120m contours (but it's the other side of the valley so presumably not the storage for most of the east side consumers)

 

[DJH]

I‘m not quite sure what your situation is there Joce with your waterworks… From what I can gather from various posts at present you have a well which dries up during dry summer months. I presume the well is fed from springs which keep up with demand during the rest of the year but not when you need water most those hot dry summer months.

An alternative solution to your problem might be to consider additional storage facilities for example plastic oil storage tanks which could be fed from you existing well and then supplied to the house by booster pump. This method could also be used in conjunction with your borehole if you go down that route. A reservoir of water held like this will overcome any shortfall in supply and allow the reserve to be topped up at whatever rate is delivered from the well/borehole. Drawing water from the tank will ensure that there is no chance of stagnation in the stored water.

I used this method successfully when we were on the local supply here until I sank our borehole. Over here you will find water wherever you drill a hole, in fact our supply was drilled where the lorry parked when it turned in our yard about fifty meters or so from where I really wanted it, although we do have the range of the Mitchelstown caves underneath us. I was concerned we would drill down through a cavern but consoled myself with the thought that I could open them and set up a tearoom and giftshop…

Doug

 

[philpjuk100]

If the height is marginal could some type of suction pump be fitted at the top of the pipe? I think some of these can deal with a head of 30 metres,a non return valve would be needed and on the first startup would require a manual prime.Just a thought, may be daft,just back from the pub! (I thought TDH meant "total dynamic head" but my wife says it means "tall dark and handsome"!).

 

[Penners]

it would be interesting to know how the properties on Hall Road to the east are supplied since some of them are at the same elevation.

Yes, that seems very relevant. And if Joce's house is on the same contour line as the reservoir, does the reservoir itself provide the head of water, or are there higher water towers?

The east side of town, where Joce is, seems to be supplied from the covered reservoirs, the west side has a 75 foot (ish) water tower whose base is between the 115m and 120m contours (but it's the other side of the valley so presumably not the storage for most of the east side consumers)

In which case - given that BC is at the same level as the reservoir, and Coldharbour Lane is higher - it's logical to assume that the houses in Coldharbour Lane must be supplied by some kind of pumped system. I wonder why this couldn't be extended to serve BC through the existing pipe that was laid by a predecessor in the house.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Thanks for all the posts. So kind of you all!

Doug - yes - good ideas. We bought a bowser and it is very large, holding 1000 litres. If I were to cane through 200 litres a day ( I don't ) that would last ten days so I think I'd need tanks to hold 5000 litres to get me through a very droughty period. We do have the space but I am pretty certain my well would not supply 5000 litres in the winter for storage. At the very least I think we must turn our field spring into another well and find a way of pumping that water into the bowser, if a mains connection is going to be more than £25,000. I think £25,000 is a cut off point at which we'll decide a mains connection is just too expensive.

The Coldharbour Lane connection couldn't happen from the pipe that was laid by the previous owner. He had a choice which way to lay his pipe and he chose north-west down to Beacon Lane. He couldn't go straight down to the Crematorium because it would mean digging through the graves. He couldn't go behind the house to Hall Lane and Harrowby because it's too far and the Hills and Hollows are in the way. And he chose not to go directly south to Coldharbour Lane because of the cows along the route, and the complaints about the water pressure on that Lane.
He couldn't believe it when the water board turned round and said it couldn't be connected after all his efforts, but he should have asked them first!!! And we were very very naive to believe it would work without Anglian Water saying yes before the project began.

I suppose I could take a new pipe south to Coldharbour Lane but I'm different to the previous owner and would want permissions from all the different land owners who own those fields. I'm very friendly with Fiona and our pipe could perhaps go through her grounds to emerge on Coldharbour Lane. It's certainly a lot lot higher up than Beacon Lane, and if the pipe just ran straight across the fields the up part and the pump could be located in our field below the house.

 

[Penners]

We bought a bowser and it is very large, holding 1000 litres. If I were to cane through 200 litres a day...that would last ten days

Errr... :?

 

[Feltwell]

Whatever you do Joce, you've got to engage with Anglian Water to begin with. They won't allow you to connect to their pipes unless they are happy that the install meets their standards, any water company will be understandably touchy about connecting to their potable supply. The wrong kind of installation can lead to a backflow of contaminated water into the public supply.

Water pressure problems aren't necessarily insurmountable. Pumps work much better in "push" mode rather than "pull" - i.e. pushing the water up from a pump mounted at the bottom of any hill is much more likely to be a viable option than sucking the water up from a pump mounted in your property. At least, that's what I think Father Feltwell has told me in the past, he's been an engineer in the pump industry for about 40 years.

 

[JoceAndChris]

I wonder if your Dad would know about the size of the pump needed Feltwell?

I really must call some specialists out and consult with Anglian Water again.

And oh dear - me and sums seem to be having a worse relationship than ever!

 

[DJH]

I was thinking along the lines of using a reservoir along with a bore hole Joce the idea being that the borehole will top up the reservoir in it's own time rather than pumping water on demand through a small pressure vessel. The same principle as a storage cistern in the roof.

Drilling companies are most reluctant to guarantee supply rates from boreholes but even a minimum supply would be better than none at all as with your present well.

I thought your maths was spot on but then, I never was good at the subject...

Doug

 

[88v8]

Here's how to calculate the size.
http://www.raeng.org.uk/education/diploma/maths/pdf/exemplars_advanced/17_pumping_water.pdf
I was going to do it last night but I was ambussshed by a brandy & ginger.

Two points; we'll, perhaps three.

First, you'd have to get a power cable down to the pump. It will have to come from you, so it can be metered. One mile of thick cable. It will need to be thick to avoid excessive voltage drop, and buried 3 feet.
So there's much or all of your £25k gone

Pumps readily provide flow, or pressure. A pump to do both is expensive. If you reckon the average suburban pressure is about 40psi, with typical flow from a garden tap of better than 2 gal/minute, it would take a hell of a big pump to achieve that through a mile of pipe rising 130ft, even though it is a pipe of decent size.

So, second point, I think any prospect of a mains-powered shower has to be forgotten.
This, we had in our previous house... Aqualisa... is designed to run from a low static head, we ran it from our attic tank which was jacked up 2 feet to give a 5ft head, the hot water came from our hot tank, it was fine.
http://www.aqualisa.co.uk/our-products/axis-thermo/
Can't find the exact model we had, but their usp 20 years ago was working from a low static head.

You can also run one with a booster pump of course.

Thirdly, garden hose, if you want a decent pressure from a hose you'll need to create it with your own local pump, not one a mile away.
This, for instance, perhaps
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jabsco-Par-Max-2-9-Automatic-Water-Pressure-pump-12v-11-Ltr-Min-40psi-/370597229613

I say 'perhaps... you see it claims 2 gal/min and 40psi, but, as Feltwell Senior will tell you, you have to be careful buying a pump; the question is not 'will it flow 2 gal/min' or 'will it do 40psi', but 'will it flow 2 gal/min at 40psi'. That is a very different proposition, and one which seems to be skirted by most of the pump listings on eBay.
That's what you need - 2 gal/min at 40psi. I suspect this cheapo example won't do it.
Could be 12V - needs a battery, more faffing - or 110V - needs a transformer.

Anyway, as you realised already, your mile of 2" pipe, RIP. Sorry.

Ivor

 

[JoceAndChris]

Thanks very much for the posts - a lot to research. The reservoir plan is a good one and I'm starting work on my pond which I plan to fill with bowser trips to Croxton Kerrial where there is a gushing pump. Once I have a nice big pond I might be able to pump water out of it for my roses in the summer? Or at least lower a watering can in. The garden takes more water than the house. Another reservoir by the spring in the field would be good if we don't want to take the risk of drilling a borehole (and I don't think we do, because it could be £15,000 for absolutely nothing.)

The point about the electricity to any pump we install is a good one. There is our electric cable that runs all the way nearby to the unused water pipe - the house had no electricity so the previous owner dug a trench down to Beacon Lane in the 80s and laid the electric cable himself. But I don't know if a spur could be taken off that for my pump. And the whole pump/pressure thing seems rather daunting.

 

[Keith Bowman]

Where ignorance is concerned, I'm in the top league...BUT just because Joce and Chris have to pay for the electricity to power a pump, surely that doesn't mean the cable has to run all the way from their house? Couldn't the supply come from the nearest electricity mains via a new meter to the pump? It is certainly possible to have two accounts and two meters in one name - we had such an arrangement here when we moved in.

 

[Feltwell]

There's no reason why the power has to come from the house.

First step has to be Anglian Water, as they may well insist that any connection & the necessary pumping arrangements are done by them anyway. I wouldn't approach them from a "I have this pipe and want it connected" point of view, I would approach them from a "I want my house to be connected to mains water, please can we discuss the options" point of view - as it may be that your existing pipe is not the best or cheapest option.

 

[88v8]

Where ignorance is concerned, I'm in the top league...BUT just because Joce and Chris have to pay for the electricity to power a pump, surely that doesn't mean the cable has to run all the way from their house? Couldn't the supply come from the nearest electricity mains via a new meter to the pump? It is certainly possible to have two accounts and two meters in one name - we had such an arrangement here when we moved in.

Bet you're not in my league

New meter... that would be much better. In that case see no reason why the power shouldn't come from the existing cable.
Not sure how the meter could be made secure, and accessible to read, but I expect there's a way.

And, strike a light... look at this forum
http://forum.pipeflowcalculations.com/viewforum.php?f=3&sid=29dd2c45158728fdc48e78253fd5c51b

Is there no end to the realm of online geekdom?

Ivor

 

[DJH]

http://www.tppumps.co.uk/ I can recommend them. Bought my pump and UV from them and found them very helpful. £15k for a borehole... :shock: Average of €5000 over here!

Doug