New to the forum with lots of questions

[eezageeza]

and we make our point in the kindest of ways

I'm not sure all posters have achieved that aim...

diplomacy is likely to be more productive than castigation

Well said that man! I think there's been a distinct whiff of "we don't need your sort round here..."in some of the replies to this thread.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Well said that man! I think there's been a distinct whiff of "we don't need your sort round here..."in some of the replies to this thread.

Absolutely! telling someone that their Mum's 40-year-old ideas about the "best" way to improve an old house are likely to cause extreme, long-term, problems with the house they are now going to move into is so obviously wrong, isn't it? :roll:
I look forward to seeing Martin from Cheshire back here in about five years with a host of new problems, caused by ignoring the very sensible advice he's been given here. If it ain't broke, don't even think about trying to fix it.

 

[angrybird]

when I first purchased my house in February I was full of excitement at owning my first period property and then the panic set in! what was I doing taking on such a big project,the poor house was so neglected,damp and unloved but with all the helpful advice from the members on here being told that the house was still standing after 160 years and not to panic! I realised renovation is not a race its a labour of love,the UPVC widows are all being replaced with hand made wooden sashes the rayburns been lit and the walls and floors are drying out (I love my quarry tiled and flagstone floors ) I have sanded all the yukky varnished wooden floors, stripped doors,exposed beams,replaced the sewer pipes, electrics and plumbing, the bathrooms arnt plumbed in yet but they will be soon.
After all the hard work I would't change my house for the world I just hope its still here in another 160 years.

 

[JoceAndChris]

I don't think we've had anywhere near enough pictures of all this work angrybird.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

After all the hard work I would't change my house for the world I just hope its still here in another 160 years.

I think you've substantially increased the likelihood of that.

 

[Jellyfire]

I think the point Eezageeza was making, which I was trying to aim for in my post in a more roundabout way, is that leaping like conservation wolves onto a new forum poster who is about to do something we all know is a mistake is likely to have one end result. We won't hear from them again and the floor will appear on eBay in the not too distant future.

Surely it's preferable to try a little gentle persuasion, and even if the floor isn't saved, maybe lots of fabric and features in the future would be. I fear that we probably won't hear from the OP again, the floor will be concreted, and any future decision will be made without even seeking advice. That advice may not be taken, but at least it's being given so there's a chance it will be.

 

[Flyfisher]

That was certainly the point I was trying to make. What a wasted opportunity if Martin really does only return after five years with a host of concrete floor-related problems. Yes, we'll all be able to say 'told you so' but how does that help the house?

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Well, I guess I agree - and that was the point of my original "hinting" post on the first page. I referenced the delicate balance between giving advice and not scaring folk away on the second page.

But on the other hand, if the OP effectively dismisses the advice ventured without further discussion or clarification, has already decided upon a course of action, and is clear they can do so because the house is theirs to alter as they wish - then I'm not sure how much advice we can offer. As I said, by that point I wasn't clear what advice was being sought.

Anyone asking whether they should sell or just "dump" their original floor, is kinda waving a red flag in bull pen?

Realistically we won't keep/persuade/educate/advise every newcomer. I doubt any forum does. There are many on here who have travelled that journey and (like me) still are travelling the learning curve. There are far more who come, post once, twice, maybe a few times, and who then leave. They may all go and rip up their floors and pour concrete and then curse their damp walls, install cement render and DPCs in vain effort and then paint everything in plastic paint. They may like living in hermetically sealed Barratt boxes unaware of the joys of experiencing each passing season in your living room. Lots of people like it that way.

That's life.

Hopefully Martin will be back.

If not, there are plenty of novice JoceandChrises, FamilyWiggses, Zebras, AngryBirds, and many others as yet unknown, who are more promising prospects for period property "redemption"!

 

[plasticpigeon]

You know what. Putting in a concrete floor might not cause damp in the walls. After all there was lino and roof felt there anyway effectively sealing it! He is going to use lime plaster on the walls so it could well be ok and Martin might consider this forum to be full of slightly haughty eccentrics!

 

[JoceAndChris]

I really think its OK - good in fact - for a forum like this to have a spread of personalities. Lovely, balanced calm people like FF and FW and daggers at dawn types like me. I was actually really nice, by my standards. :lol: The house can't speak, some people have to speak up for it.

I remember my first thread - gosh, what a storm. I was all set to have the rubble stone stripped bare with a sledgehammer, left naked and god knows what else. Thank goodness there was a reaction of horror. Tomorrow, I'm lunching with one of the horrified who has become my best friend. Life has curious twists.

I hope Martin will take on board the strong messages in this thread. I'm not sure he ever would have done though as his mind was made up to support his parents in their drastic modernisation, and he sought support from us for his actions, which we couldn't fully give.

 

[B16mts]

Having been a member of at least 53 internet forums ranging from health to cars, sports and shells, I know how these things work and that are some very passionate people out there.

I hadnt intended to kick the hornets nest, but it has made for very entertaining reading! Some very abrupt, snobbish and unwelcoming posts. It would be easy for me to turn my back and do what i want, but thats not why i came here.

I want to ensure my folks are comfortable as they retire, so that i can rent the newer side of the house and raise my children on the same 100 acres of cheshire farmland i grew up in. (i did think i mentioned that earlier)

Anywho, i still want to do whats best for the structure also, and obviously dont want to cause more harm than good. Turns out the floor in the kitchen that is damp is a few inches below the floor outside. If it wasnt for some of you I'd have not spotted it, now my dad is lifting the concrete slab outside digging a channel against the wall and filling it with gravel.

Sincere apologies, but the horse hair floor tiles that my nana used to water throughout the ground floor have now gone. Sacrilege perhaps, but please forgive me!

I want to investigate doing a limcrete insulated floor, though as the floor has basically been sealed for the last 40 years, I'm not sure concreting will be too much of a structural issue, but i want to be safe.

Does lime plaster take forever to dry? Would stud walling be an option? What kind of paint allows the walls to continue to breathe?

Finally for today. Thank you to those with open minds and hearts, who have given some constructive ideas, i fear though that if this is the standard welcome from the "forum", it is very hard for new members to feel welcomed.

Cheers,

Martin

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Lovely, balanced calm people like FF and FW

That's FlyFisher and Feltwell, not FlyFisher and FamilyWiggs, should Joce's diplomatic ambiguity be misinterpreted! :wink:

 

[middi]

someone mentioned " God" and " church". I believe that earthlings like us are highly unlikely to have a can opener big enough to let all the worms out from tin. ( still, thats for another forum).
( mind you astrophycicists(?) are chipping away at it quite fast and I am sure ,eventually, people will understand that they are letting the cat out of the bag)

Middi

 

[FamilyWiggs]

someone mentioned " God" and " church". I believe that earthlings like us are highly unlikely to have a can opener big enough to let all the worms out from tin. ( still, thats for another forum).Middi

Amen to that. :wink:

( mind you astrophycicists(?) are chipping away at it quite fast and I am sure ,eventually, people will understand that they are letting the cat out of the bag)

Middi

If it's Schroedinger's cat, we already know. It's dead. And alive. Simultaneously. And it was a box, not a bag it was in. 8)

 

[middi]

OOOoops, sorry FW, the cat provenance must have been lost in the translation ( :wink: )

Middi

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Does lime plaster take forever to dry? Would stud walling be an option? What kind of paint allows the walls to continue to breathe?

Lime plaster takes longer than modern gypsum to dry - which is one reason so many of us had done it ourselves. I've usually made a right mess of gypsum by the time it has gone off in 30 minutes. Lime plaster is much easier to work. It can take a week or so to go off, as you keep wetting it whilst it goes off to prevent cracking. It can then take longer before it is completely dry - just maintain ventilation whilst it does so.

Stud walling is an option providing the covering is still breathable. But in the time it takes to stud the place, your lime plaster will probably have gone off nicely!

Pretty much any natural paint that doesn't contain plastic is breathable. We've used Earthborn clay paints - they're lovely to use, give a lovely finish and don't poison your kids. Many have made their own limewash -which is great for helping to regulate moisture.

Glad you've got a potential solution to the floor - checking rainwater goods are doing their job, and external ground levels are not higher than the floor are always first things to look at.

 

[MdB]

now my dad is lifting the concrete slab outside digging a channel against the wall and filling it with gravel.

Up to a week ago, I would have thought that was fine. However, the waste pipe trench we recently had dug was back filled with what it called pea shingle in Cornwall (actually crushed granite). I thought that this would drain fantastically as it was down hill to the stream but both the builders and myself were rather surprised to see water laying on the top of it. Sure there was a lot of water coming into the trench and the water was moving through the gravel but no where near fast enough. We ended up deciding to remove the gravel and insert a perforated drainage pipe alongside the waste pipe. This worked fantastically by comparison and the water level dropped to that of the bottom of the pipe. Admittedly our conditions are on the extreme end but I strongly suggest having a perforated pipe at the bottom of your trench draining to somewhere useful.

 

[Feltwell]

Lovely, balanced calm people like FF and FW

That's FlyFisher and Feltwell, not FlyFisher and FamilyWiggs, should Joce's diplomatic ambiguity be misinterpreted! :wink:

Calm? I try. Lovely? Only when I want to be :wink: . Balanced? Less said the better!

Anyhow, I reckon she meant you Mr Wiggs. This "FW" lark is very confusing!

 

[Jellyfire]

i fear though that if this is the standard welcome from the "forum", it is very hard for new members to feel welcomed.

I'm very glad you are still here Martin and seem to have a thick skin! It is far from the standard welcome, the forum is usually a very friendly and welcoming one, there are generally very few of the usual petty arguments and devils advocates you usually get on a forum, and insults are so rare that having been a regular reader and occasional contributor for a few years that I can't actually remember such a thing.

I have to say though, I have seen new posters preached at and talked down to a few times. Some of them are still here and use the vast knowledge and experience the people on here have to offer, which is unrivalled in my opinion, but I fear many more never logged on again, and to be honest I can't say I'd blame them.

I think one or two of the more established posters occasionally forget that most of us were new to period properties too at one time, and that not everybody shares their point of view on certain aspects of renovation/restoration (two words that are often interchanged and have very different meanings), and as has been pointed out, I agree that there is sometimes a hint of snobbery in some posts.

People value different aspects of period properties differently. Some people think that a property should be authentic to the time and materials it was built in, with glassless window openings and livestock sharing the room, whilst others will dress a humble peasant's cottage in hand woven silk drapes, interwoven with gold thread. (I'm obviously using a touch of artistic license, but my point is not everybody shares everybody's opinion on all matters.)

Martin has chosen not to take some of the advice regarding the floor, we might not all agree with that, but maybe some purists wouldn't like the fact I've removed a 1970's fireplace to reveal an earlier one.

This forum is an invaluable resource to anybody living in an old property and I hate to see people scared off before they have had a chance to soak up some of the knowledge on it.

Does lime plaster take forever to dry? Would stud walling be an option? What kind of paint allows the walls to continue to breathe?

Now to try and offer some actual help. Im sure those far more knowledgable, of which there are many, will be along to offer their advice, but having lime plastered myself, I found it a great material to work with, much easier than modern gypsum plaster. It takes a little longer to dry, but that has the advantage of making it easier to work, and though it is best to keep it damp for a couple of days, its not wet like wet paint is, so its not particularly troublesome. Limewash is breathable, and I believe Claypaints and various other finishes are as well though I haven't used them myself.

Edit: it took me so long to write that whilst trying to avoid causing offence, all the lime questions have been answered, showing what a great forum this can be!

 

[vicky whitworth]

Blimey, I must be very thick skinned. I didn't even notice any unwelcomingness. I thought the OP got a very positive response from a broad range of opinions. If that was unwelcoming I must work in totally hostile environments I would have labelled it as engaged, passionate debate and to be encouraged. Vicky