Thanks everyone. Well yes I can 100% justify a vent isn't necessary, infact I can show several gaps around the windows and doors which amount to much more than the required vent size! (When it's windy the curtains move! Which I don't mind, ventilation is great for the house, not just the stove) i don't want to get around building regs, I have a CO alarm of course, but I don't want to carry out totally unnecessary alterations to a historical building just to satisfy building regulations that are designed for hermetically sealed modern buildings. Also I want a smaller stove than the existing huge one which far too large. But I want something that won't look out of place in an inglenook and that will still hear the upstairs bedrooms too.
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Flyfisher
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It can be frustrating can't it? Trouble is, it all comes down to interpretation of the requirements. Why should someone take the risk of certifying an installation that doesn't have a separate suitable vent? They have little to gain but everything, perhaps, to lose if a new owner fits secondary double glazing around those draughty windows. Might be worth talking to some HEATAS installers as asking if they'd be willing to certify things based on the natural ventilation of the house, but I wouldn't hold out much hope.
I've got a similar issue with the final building control sign-off for our kitchen extension. As part of the new build we have a small 'utility' room adjacent to the kitchen. It has an opening window but no ventilation fan. When the BC inspector visited just before Christmas he pointed out that a room with a washing machine and dryer required a ventilator, which I don't want to fit because it would spoilt the outside wall. However, he did helpfully point out that if the utility 'area' did not have a door then it could be treated as part of the kitchen and the hob extractor fan (which is about 6-7m from the utility room!) would satisfy the regulations. I'll leave you to guess how things will be for the final sign-off inspection and what may, possibly, perhaps, happen after all the paperwork is done and dusted. :lol:
I've got a similar issue with the final building control sign-off for our kitchen extension. As part of the new build we have a small 'utility' room adjacent to the kitchen. It has an opening window but no ventilation fan. When the BC inspector visited just before Christmas he pointed out that a room with a washing machine and dryer required a ventilator, which I don't want to fit because it would spoilt the outside wall. However, he did helpfully point out that if the utility 'area' did not have a door then it could be treated as part of the kitchen and the hob extractor fan (which is about 6-7m from the utility room!) would satisfy the regulations. I'll leave you to guess how things will be for the final sign-off inspection and what may, possibly, perhaps, happen after all the paperwork is done and dusted. :lol:
Penners
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Ebenezer said:
Ebenezer said:
:?
Penners said:
by "get around" I don't mean ignore them entirely. I mean are there other ways of satisfying building control. Especially as in many old buildings it is quite plain that a vent is not only a waste of time but detrimental to the character. Just wondered about other's experiences. If my house and,I expect yours too, had to comply with all modern building regs they would have to be knocked down!
Flyfisher
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Ebenezer said:
To be fair, with the current drive towards reducing energy consumption and insulating and draught-proofing our homes, it's not entirely fanciful to imagine a proud new owner of an unvented house moving in, blocking up all the draughts and then dropping dead of CO poisoning.
Also, 'detrimental to the character' is a very tricky subject, which even professional conservationists can argue about. The uncomfortable truth is that there is no one in the country who would want to live in a totally authentic 100+ year old house, so where does one draw the line? Indoor toilets? Dedicated bathrooms? Gas lighting? Central heating?
DJH
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WiFi?... 
Flyfisher said:
Of course you are correct on both counts. But to be honest there is more of chance of said new owner dying with the current monstrous stove as opposed to the one half the size I want to replace it with.
And the second point comes down to how much of an extreme conservationist you are. Personally I think a period house can have most of the modern comforts without compromising the character. The reason I don't seal up the drafts is, believe or not, not because I enjoy feeling the ice cold wind in the comfort of my living per 1700 but for the increased ventilation to help keep the damp at bay.
88v8
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Flyfisher said:
Remember those airbricks in the walls of bedrooms? All blocked up.
I suspect the first 'draught' your putative new owner would block up would be the vent...
Ivor
Flyfisher
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Yes, fair point. There's nowt as strange as folk. :lol: :lol: :lol:
The installer would be in the clear though. :wink:
The installer would be in the clear though. :wink:
tobydog
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Prior to our current 1600's timber framed, thatched and draughty house, I had a brand new one. Moved into it in 2006. To be fair it had 'character' including old barn style wooden doors to the garage. It had a working fireplace and chimney and I got the builders to install a gas feed. The problem I had was that in the south facing wall there were two air vents about 250mm square. One at the top of the wall and one at the bottom. It had the usual grills on both sides but the inside grill was the slider type and this was glued open. When the wind blew it was strong enough in the house to move paper around and I had moved in mid March!! It was like having a side window wide open. I complained to the builder who said that they were obliged to glue them open for some health and safety / building regs reason. Having said this, he then offered to change this during the snagging process so I could open and close as necessary. He also filled it with loft insulation material. I never did get round to using the chimney or fitting a gas fire but I don't know about the subsequent owners. Fitting vents (especially in a modern sealed house) makes perfect sense but unless owners are educated as to why they are needed, this simply becomes a builders box ticking exercise and owners will seal them up. I know better now.
Flyfisher
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There was a fascinating article about the benefits of fresh air in a recent New Scientist. Unfortunately, the whole article is only available online to subscribers, but here's the preview: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22029470.700-fresh-air-and-sunshine-the-forgotten-antibiotics.html.
There are plenty of other articles about the benefits of fresh air on the web but the NS one is interesting as it was based on studies about the beneficial effects in a bacteriological sense and especially in hospitals, which tend to be warm, stuffy places these days with few, if any, opening windows. The contention was that this was a likely reason for the increase in MRSA and other infectious problems and the suggestion was that instead of the expense of 'deep cleaning' it could all be solved simply by throwing open the windows!
I think I've mentioned before that guidelines for a 'healthy' home environment suggests that the air in 'living' rooms should be changed 4x per hour and 7x per hour in kitchens and bathrooms. Contrast that with the current trends to completely draughtproof new homes (even to the extent of requiring 'pressure tests' for new builds), driven no doubt by increasing energy concerns and the relatively modern fad of central heating.
There are plenty of other articles about the benefits of fresh air on the web but the NS one is interesting as it was based on studies about the beneficial effects in a bacteriological sense and especially in hospitals, which tend to be warm, stuffy places these days with few, if any, opening windows. The contention was that this was a likely reason for the increase in MRSA and other infectious problems and the suggestion was that instead of the expense of 'deep cleaning' it could all be solved simply by throwing open the windows!
I think I've mentioned before that guidelines for a 'healthy' home environment suggests that the air in 'living' rooms should be changed 4x per hour and 7x per hour in kitchens and bathrooms. Contrast that with the current trends to completely draughtproof new homes (even to the extent of requiring 'pressure tests' for new builds), driven no doubt by increasing energy concerns and the relatively modern fad of central heating.
MatthewC
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On my house the one vent to the suspended floor in the lounge was blocked by a lump of concrete inside. However, the house has a vent which seems to ventilate the wall in the bathroom - I never saw a sign of it when I had the bathroom floor up and patched the inside wall.88v8 said:
