How long for LBC?

[Nemesis]

Right. I feel duly humble, and will not bother again to try to give conservation advice on this forum.

 

[Pford75]

Look...we are all speaking broadly from the same perspective ie. We all value our heritage and are all interested in undertaking sensitive repairs to our properties in the right way (using the right materials and abiding by the law).

What some of us are saying is that the current process is mostly focused on (and inflexible to) those who choose to engage - ie. those who have the right intentions....whereas those who ignore the process get very little attention from LA's.

How many prosecutions/enforcement actions have there been in the past 12 months for flouting LBC process? Many of us spend our hard-earned money saving buildings which would otherwise have degraded or crumbled....yet in many cases, it would seem that the LA would rather they feel to pieces than allow them to be rescued.

I for one value your advice on this forum, and I suspect so does everyone else. But sometimes you take such strong opposition to points and rarely concede that others may have a point. It's quite frustrating, especially when we're all trying to do the right thing by our homes.

In the same storm which flattened our wall, the parish church had their wall damaged. Also listed, they didn't bother with applying for consent and instead slapped it back up with cement. I on the other hand have agreed to every suggestion from the LA, increasing the cost of the repair by many 000's of ppounds. I don't regret my situation - the wall looks wonderful aand I know it has been done the right way....but it does feel tthat the balance of attention/beauraucracy is wrong.

 

[Flyfisher]

You sound dangerously like an anarchist to me. :wink:

Well, only the well-ordered, everyone behaving themselves, sort of anarchy.

 

[Nemesis]

Ecclesiastical exemption. And try for size the words ignorant and arrogant.

 

[Penners]

try for size the words ignorant and arrogant.

Nemesis, for goodness' sake stop it.

 

[Nemesis]

I have David, along with a couple of others who used to post here and now don't, or at least very rarely.

 

[pandora]

And as to having a case officer work on different days to the CO - maybe they communicate?

I can assure you they didn't! And I can also assure you they do have case officers (who are all just standard planning officers) who they could have allocated who do work on the same days as the conservation officer. A microscopic amount of common sense would suggest that if you have 2 planning officers who work on different days, you allocate the one who is in work on the same days as the CO if the job is on a listed building, and allow the other one to work on cases not requiring the attentions of the CO. If it was a private business this type of fundamental stupidity would have the paying customers up in arms. I am a tax payer - so yes I feel that I am a paying customer of the council, and I AM up in arms.

When I bought my house I had hoped that I would be able to form a relationship with the CO that would benefit my house. Instead all I have got is a headache over the petty-mindedness I have experienced. EG I write to the CO and say 'my chimney leaks, I would like to repair it with lime mortar. Do I need LBC.' Reply - 'it is listed - you need LBC for everything we can see.' I apply for LBC, to be told I need an architect - what?! to repoint a chimney? An architect friend of mine then writes to her and says 'her chimney leaks, she would like to repair it with lime mortar. Yours, xxx, RIBA.' She writes 'Dear architect, la-di-da, why didn't you say so earlier? Be my guest' (The last bit is tongue in cheek but gives the general impression.

I know they are busy, but in my case I feel that she made more work for herself unnecessarily. I now know that I didn't need LBC for a leaking chimney repair providing the repair was done on a like-for-like basis. But inane exchanges like this have added months and £££s to my house repairs for no reason that I can see.

Before anyone jumps down my throat (Nemesis!) as a result of wanting to do the best for my house I am now a SPAB supporting, lime-plastering, carefully-stepping, repair-not-renovating, fully signed up member of the 'knit your own cottage' brigade who was able to tell the CO a few things she did not know about (when she would listen to me.) My dad has a friend who is a CO who has been extremely helpful. I really feel strongly that if not complying with LBC can result in a criminal record, that there should be more uniformity across councils, rather than the current 'oh they are overworked you know' approach that some people take. I AM protecting the heritage of my little corner of this country, but it IS also my home.

 

[Moo]

Penners, do stop being so over-sensitive. Nemesis was referring to the people who slapped the cement on their wall.

 

[Nemesis]

No. she wasn't.

If it was a listed C of E church, the Church is a law unto itself and doesn't need LBC.

And to quote Penners elsewhere:

Everyone's a bl**dy expert.

 

[Flyfisher]

And to quote Nemesis elsewhere:

Although you have quoted out of context, which is never a great idea

 

[Nemesis]

Well, you can get on with answering queries from now on.

Plenty to get your teeth into

 

[Adam F]

BLIMEY!!!

I havent read this forum for a few days...I only wanted to know how long my LBC would take!!!!

IMHO valid points raised in both corners, I feel the middle ground is correct but varies so much from county to county and house to house.

Someone (cant remember who) summed it up well as far as I'm concerned in that we are all trying our best to conserve our homes and british heritage.

 

[Penners]

Someone (cant remember who) summed it up well

Go on! You're just trying to introduce a note of diplomacy into the proceedings. :wink:

 

[Nemesis]

we are all trying our best to conserve our homes and british heritage.

Release date: 21/11/2007

By: Charlie Masson Smith


Developer bulldozed listed building


A property developer who demolished an important listed building in Putney without consent has been ordered to pay £11,000 in fines and legal costs after the council took him to court.

Mr Rajiv Laxman, the sole director of Abrus Ltd was prosecuted by the council's planning department for the unlawful demolition of the former caretaker's cottage at Brandlehow School.

The building, which is no longer used by the primary school, is Grade II Listed, and was designed by the controversial architect Erno Goldfinger – best known for designing the iconic Trellick Tower in Paddington.

Brandlehow School was built in 1952 and is one of only two schools in the country to have been designed by Mr Goldfinger.

Mr Laxman applied for permission to demolish the building in 2002 but was refused. He took the case to appeal but a Government planning inspector backed the council's decision to say no.

But in January of this year the council received tip-offs from concerned local residents that the cottage was being demolished.

Planning officers rushed to the site and ordered all work to cease. Mr Laxman was immediately contacted and told to stop any further demolition work from being carried out. He was warned that unauthorised demolition was a criminal offence and that the council would require the building to be restored. This warning was also put in writing to him.

However, when the officers returned to the site two days later it was clear that more of the building had been knocked down, including its precious roof, using a mechanical digger.

Mr Laxman, whose company is based in Leicester Road, Croydon, was prosecuted under Section 9 of the Planning (Listed Buildings & Conservation Areas) Act 1990 at South Western magistrates court last week. He was fined £8,000 and ordered to pay £3,000 legal costs.

In a separate legal action the council has instructed Mr Laxman to rebuild the property to exactly match its former appearance, using the same Goldfinger design and materials. If he fails to comply with this listed building enforcement notice he could face unlimited fines in the crown court.

Prior to the court case, listed buildings watchdog English Heritage said: "The harm to the character, appearance and special architectural interest of the cottage and school is considered to be severe."

English Heritage insisted that the demolition was not justified and strongly condemned "this severely damaging unauthorised work".

And architectural amenity group the Twentieth Century Society said: "The society recognises the detrimental message it would send out if this unlawful demolition of a listed building were to go unpunished.

"The unlawful demolition is a deeply regrettable loss. The Society are very pleased to note that Wandsworth are taking enforcement action in this case."

The council's planning applications chairman Cllr Leslie McDonnell said: "This was a flagrant breach of planning laws and a totally outrageous attempt to flout the regulations that protect the nation's most valuable and important architectural gems.

"Erno Goldfinger was one the most interesting of the post-war designers yet one of the least prolific. That is why the loss of this particular building is felt so acutely.

"The council has now ordered Mr Laxman to restore this listed building without any further delay. If he does not comply with our enforcement notice we will not hesitate to take further legal action against him – and if he's convicted – we will be pressing the courts to impose a very tough penalty on him.

"If developers think they can get away with circumventing planning laws like this in Wandsworth – they had better think again."

Brandlehow School and the attached caretaker's cottage were given listed building status in 1993. Commissioned by the London County Council it was one of Goldfinger's first public buildings and was constructed using innovative building methods for the time, using a pre-cast reinforced concrete frame.

 

[Flyfisher]

Talk about quoting out of context :roll:

 

[Nemesis]

How many prosecutions/enforcement actions have there been in the past 12 months for flouting LBC process?

There is a database, kept by Bob Kindred. I thought that this one was so spectacular that it deserved a mention. (Actually it was sent to me by a CO who asked me to post it here.)

For some years the Institute of Historic Building Conservation has been maintaining a national database of listed building prosecution fines and is always interested to hear of cases, irrespective of whether these successfully imposed significant penalties or where only a small fine or conditional discharge was levied. The data is helpful in building up a picture of the level of activity, assisting better practice and encouraging more consistency in sentencing, and encouraging more authorities to consider prosecution where appropriate.

Try this direct quote for size, Mike:

Flyfisher is an arse.

A fellow poster.

 

[Pford75]

When I said 'we'...I meant those of us on this forum...ie. those who are keen to understand the right methods/materials etc. and are seeking advice. I never claimed that there aren't a bunch of neanderthals out there.

This has all been blown somewhat out of proportion...the OP asked 'How long does LBC take'...the answer depends on where you live and how well funded the Conservation team at your local authority is.

I'm glad you decided to post again by the way...despite the abuse :?

 

[Flyfisher]

I agree the article deserved a mention as an example of the sorts of abuses that some people will perpetrate, but that wasn't the context of the quote you used to precede it.

I only mentioned it because you had previously taken Penners to task about quoting out of context.

And then, as ever, you completely spoil things by reverting to childish abuse :roll:

 

[Nemesis]

Oh no, it's not for long. I was asked to post it.

As someone else said today - this isn't interesting any longer as a place to post.

Abuse comes in many forms, doesn't it?

Overt, covert...

But the quote was from a fellow poster. A direct quote.

 

[Flyfisher]

Well we all have our own opinions but most people tend to keep the more offensive ones to themselves.
Not Nemesis though, even if it's not even her opinion :roll: