How long for LBC?

[Nemesis]

Anyhow - with regard to PFord75 - you got the people on site, and then contacted the local authority? Did not think that it would be a good idea to have all consents in place before having the workmen on site?

 

[Penners]

You mention that there are a number of areas requiring LBC....are you going to include them all in a single application?

This is the cheapest option (in terms of app'n fees)

Aren't all LBC applications free? Mine was.

Yes, Listed Building applications, are free. Planning and building regs cost.

In my experience it usually takes between 2 and 3 months to get LBC. As has been mentioned above, the time can depend on the complexity of your application, and whether it has to go to committeee or not. If it does, then the speed will depend on when in the committee's meeting cycle your application goes in.

 

[Flyfisher]

Good point about the application going to committee, or not. I'm not sure if this applies everywhere but my application was passed without going to committee. I kept checking their website for the planning committee meeting agendas, waiting for mine to be scheduled, but it never was. I was just starting to consider calling the council for an update when the consent came through anyway.

 

[Penners]

For less major projects the committee will often delegate powers to the CO. It saves them having to consider things like "May I paint my house canary yellow..."

 

[Flyfisher]

Yes, in my case the council has a 'Development Services Manager' with agreed terms of delegation. I believe this person can say yes, to save the full committee time, or refer the application to the full planning committee - a sort of triage system I suppose. Makes good sense to me.

Funny you should mention Canary Yellow; I considered that but relented in favour of plain old natural limewash (when I get around to hacking off the cementitious render that is :evil: ).
Very unadventurous, I know.

 

[Pford75]

Anyhow - with regard to PFord75 - you got the people on site, and then contacted the local authority?

No, I got the consent first for work to commence. The consent had various conditions attached (including approval of certain details halfway through)...which meant that work had to halt halfway through

Yes, Listed Building applications, are free. Planning and building regs cost.

Only free if you make all of the application yourself. Ours required detailed scale drawings of all elevations...hence we needed to employ surveyors to make the application. If the OP is doing all of the app'n themselves, agree that there is no fee

 

[Penners]

Ours required detailed scale drawings of all elevations...hence we needed to employ surveyors to make the application.

If you have extensive drawing requirements for your application, the time spent learning to use computer drawing software can save you thousands. It's not difficult - just takes a bit of practice.

 

[Flyfisher]

Ours required detailed scale drawings of all elevations...hence we needed to employ surveyors to make the application.

The notes accompanying our LBC forms stated that scale drawings were required for all elevations. I just submitted photographs instead. It seemed to work.

 

[grays85]

we had trouble when we opened our inglenook and added a wood burner, one's been there for nearly 300 years however as we are re-instating the attic bedroom we have building regs applied and they have almost vettoed the fire... we are having smoke alarms heat detectors and all doors are having a clea intrumescent paint applied..so beware..

 

[pandora]

I have to say I can see were Pford75 is coming from. I first approached our local CO informally in April 2006, and following several months where I was unable to establish any form of adult communication with her, applied for LBC for a few items which were essential to the integrity of the house (eg. repair sagging walls, install bathroom and waste management - there was only a small cesspit and outdoor loo, and deal with certain rotting timbers.) After months of circular discussion which normally finished with her suggesting I employ an architect, I finally gave in and employed a structural engineer, who wrote to her explaining what I had been telling her all along. Suddenly she was sweetness and light. We were given LBC in March, with certain items requiring us to contact the CO before we could continue. We were given a case officer to act as a go between and the case officer only worked Mondays and Tuesdays. The CO only worked Mondays, Thursday and Fridays. When you have workmen who are hanging on the CO's every word the last thing you need is the run of Bank Holiday Mondays we had in late April and May, when our case officer and CO were never in the office at the same time for weeks on end.

I don't disagree that there is a definite need for COs and that many of them do a good job, but why, why, why do they not apply the logic and diligence to going about their jobs that we as house owners are required to put into looking after our houses?

 

[Nemesis]

Well, the ones who post on here do, as do most of those I know.

They are overworked with a heavy and varied caseload is the simple answer, and as they work for local authorities (which have elected representatives etc) they are not totally autonomous, but will have procedures to be followed.

 

[Pford75]

Agree entirely....in fact I think all on this forum have lots of sympathy for the demands placed on the CO.

As Pandora mentions, these delays (brought about through sheer inefficiency) ultimately reduce the funds available to make the necessary repairs.

The consequence of this process is that some people choose not to bother with LBC....which is certainly a bad thing.

My last local council which 'could only afford to employ' 1 p/t CO managed to find the funds to employ a full time 'real nappy outreach coordinator' as well as translate all council documentation into 6 different languages.

 

[Nemesis]

Well, it isn't sheer ineffciency is it? Who is being inefficient? Simply becaue you feel that it's inefficiency on someone's part doesn't mean, if all parties gave their side of things, it is true. If you really think that there is a problem, there is always the Ombudsman.

Conservation, if you haven't grasped this by now, is not high on the agenda of many local authorities, and whingeing about the CO is possibly unfair. Whinge instead to your elected representative and see if more can be employed.

And maybe the local authority feels that it needs to employ a range of people, often there is external funding and national government policy to consider.

I'm pleased your local authority translates its documentaton so it is accessible to all.

 

[Pford75]

Your tone is unnecessary and unhelpful

As I (and others) have said, we don't blame the CO personally - I trust this is clear enough. So, we are not whingeing...any more than you whinge when you complain about any perceived planning or conservation injustice. Everyone is entitled to a point of view.

As I said, it is obvious that many LA's don't see conservation high up the agenda....that is exactly what my post made clear. What's the issue with that?

I thought that you might have supported the view that we all want conservation and the LBC process to be as accessible as possible. It is a fact that many people do not pursue consent primarily for some of the reasons raised by members here....we are the good guys, trying to do things the right way.

Can you honestly say that in the example given by Pandora, that there is no inefficiency in allocated a case officer who works different days to the CO?

I'm pleased that you feel that integration is not important...perhaps the LA should have gone further and translated into 30 languages? Just don't complain when you feel a LA doesn't have the funds for proper conservation.

I really don't understand your aggression....all on this thread are merely pointing out that

1. The LBC process often doesn't run as smoothly as it could
2. We all have examples of ways in which it could be improved without additional expenditure
3. LA's seem to forget that this is a very important service to it's tax-payers, with considerable impact on their lives
4. As a consequence of the process, many people choose to subvert it...resulting in untold damage and ill-advised works on listed buildings

I thought you might have supported the view that councils need to increase investment in conservation?

 

[Nemesis]

Aggression? So because I don't agree it's aggression?

I see though that has now altered to:

Your tone is unnecessary and unhelpful

I suppose you are aware of the proposed changes in the Heritage White Paper.

And as to having a case officer work on different days to the CO - maybe they communicate?

many people choose to subvert it...resulting in untold damage and ill-advised works on listed buildings

Many? How many?

Of course as a nation we need to spend more on conservation, but have you said that in any way and any place where it might actually be taken notice of?

perhaps the LA should have gone further and translated into 30 languages? Just don't complain when you feel a LA doesn't have the funds for proper conservation.

Ask how much it spent. Many people who translate are community volunteers.

Maybe we should close libraries also, and divert the cash. Or simply put up Council Tax?

 

[Flyfisher]

Perhaps another way of looking at this is that owners of listed buildings up and down the country are spending millions of their own money on helping to protect the heritage of this country and, in many cases, they feel they are not getting the service and support they deserve.

I would suggest that the vast majority of listed home owners are responsible and would do what's best for their property anyway, without all this costly bureaucracy. Sure, there will be irresponsible owners, but there are already people who abuse and demolish listed buildings without consent anyway, so would it really make much difference? I guess we'll never know for sure.

Pandora's experience is precisely the sort of thing that made me nervous about taking on our GII* home, especially given the '*', which brings English Heritage in on any LBC decisions as well, I believe.

Having said that, I will also say that my CO has been exemplary. He visited on many occasions during planning and was both informative and pro-actively helpful. I didn't engage any professional architects or submit any professionally prepared drawings, yet neither of these things were a problem.

It could be that having a known restoration specialist advising and helping me helped to smooth things with the CO, I don't know. Whatever the reasons, I like to think that the fact that I was serious about repairing the property and wasn't intending to make all sorts of major changes probably helped a lot.

Perhaps it's just the luck of the draw, but it shouldn't really be like that. Having public servants telling private householders what they can and can't do with their own money and property is a recipe for confrontation and frustration if not handled sensitively.

 

[Penners]

I will also say that my CO has been exemplary. He ...was both informative and ...helpful. I didn't engage any professional architects or submit any professionally prepared drawings, yet neither of these things were a problem.

I would echo all of that (and I live in a different area from FF).

I would suggest that the vast majority of listed home owners are responsible and would do what's best for their property anyway, without all this costly bureaucracy. Sure, there will be irresponsible owners, but there are already people who abuse and demolish listed buildings without consent anyway, so would it really make much difference? I guess we'll never know for sure.

You sound dangerously like an anarchist to me. :wink:

 

[Nemesis]

So much I could say, so much I won't.

Having public servants telling private householders what they can and can't do with their own money

Yes well.

 

[Nemesis]

I would suggest that the vast majority of listed home owners are responsible and would do what's best for their property anyway, without all this costly bureaucracy.

No. Most have not a clue about sensitive conservaton and conservative repair. IMHO of course.

a known restoration specialist

We call it repair, we archaic SPAB people.

 

[Flyfisher]

No. Most have not a clue about sensitive conservaton and conservative repair. IMHO of course.

So what? The responsible owner will seek the appropriate advice. I haven't a clue how to set a broken arm so, as a responsible parent, I took my son to a hospital to get it fixed. Does not knowing how to mend a broken arm make me an unsuitable parent?

a known restoration specialist

We call it repair, we archaic SPAB people.

That's just semantics and is the sort of thing that alienates people.