- Thread starter Nemesis
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Penners
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I should have thought that reliability is more about the person than the qualification.NT said:
Penners said:
how is a person to provide reliable information if their training is lacking in the relevant info? If it were a realistic energy assessment I'd not be whining, but one that fails to look at the relevant facts is just plain darft innit. It ends up producing figures that are simply a fantasy of ignorance.
And people for whatever reason seem to put these kind of things on pedestals.
Basically it means some house owners will be legally obliged to provide any potential buyer with a bunch of bull / misinformation. How anyone can think that a good plan I cant imagine.
NT
pambrose
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Seeing as it was our website that started off this thread, I thought that I'd just jump in here, as there are quite few questions being asked.
1. Inspection.
The Home Condition Reports are currently voluntary - for that read, non-existent. Even though one company in the south is managing to include these as part of the government's area trials, elsewhere the story is that they are not being taken up.
Although the government has said that industry must make them work or they will make them compulsory, this stretches credibility somewhat.
2. Energy Inspector Qualification
Today, despite it being 6 months away from launch, there are already over 100 people qualified to do energy inspections. These are qualified home inspectors, the only people CURRENTLY qualified to do this work. As pointed out, in February, a new qualification is due out whereby people can qualify JUST to do these energy inspections - which sounds sensible. (Of course there is an estimated 4 month qualification/assessment time, which makes the June 1st deadline look a little tight)
3. Legality
It will be a civil offence not to have a HIP in place before you market your property, not criminal. However, if your property is on the market before June 1st, the law is not retrospective, and you'll not need a HIP unless its still on the market by 30th October 2007.
If an estate agent is marketing the property, they could be subject to a ban if they continually flout the law.
4. Contents
HIPs contain the same documentation as a typical "auction pack" will contain today. This is fundamentally a good thing. We can say this with confidence, because estate agents today already ask for this paperwork in sales - they wouldn't ask if they didn't see a benefit to this.
5. Regulation
Us HIP providers are not regulated - that is correct. But believe me, if we mess up, it's going to be very quickly evident. And also, in terms of damages to the vendor; pretty minimal. Is it likely that you'd lose a sale because of a poor HIP, unlikely. Although, of course, it could be hassle. We expect this to be self-regulating. If estate agents find that their HIP provider is doing a bad job, they'll drop them extremely quickly.
Overall, we are finding that there is a lot of misinformation out there. Having done HIPs on period buildings (the only company with GENUINE experience out there) we are quite well placed with real feedback from buyers and sellers.
We send out a free monthly newsletter if you're interested in being kept informed on HIPs - http://www.thepartnershiplimited.com - and more than happy to take questions.
All the best
Peter
1. Inspection.
The Home Condition Reports are currently voluntary - for that read, non-existent. Even though one company in the south is managing to include these as part of the government's area trials, elsewhere the story is that they are not being taken up.
Although the government has said that industry must make them work or they will make them compulsory, this stretches credibility somewhat.
2. Energy Inspector Qualification
Today, despite it being 6 months away from launch, there are already over 100 people qualified to do energy inspections. These are qualified home inspectors, the only people CURRENTLY qualified to do this work. As pointed out, in February, a new qualification is due out whereby people can qualify JUST to do these energy inspections - which sounds sensible. (Of course there is an estimated 4 month qualification/assessment time, which makes the June 1st deadline look a little tight)
3. Legality
It will be a civil offence not to have a HIP in place before you market your property, not criminal. However, if your property is on the market before June 1st, the law is not retrospective, and you'll not need a HIP unless its still on the market by 30th October 2007.
If an estate agent is marketing the property, they could be subject to a ban if they continually flout the law.
4. Contents
HIPs contain the same documentation as a typical "auction pack" will contain today. This is fundamentally a good thing. We can say this with confidence, because estate agents today already ask for this paperwork in sales - they wouldn't ask if they didn't see a benefit to this.
5. Regulation
Us HIP providers are not regulated - that is correct. But believe me, if we mess up, it's going to be very quickly evident. And also, in terms of damages to the vendor; pretty minimal. Is it likely that you'd lose a sale because of a poor HIP, unlikely. Although, of course, it could be hassle. We expect this to be self-regulating. If estate agents find that their HIP provider is doing a bad job, they'll drop them extremely quickly.
Overall, we are finding that there is a lot of misinformation out there. Having done HIPs on period buildings (the only company with GENUINE experience out there) we are quite well placed with real feedback from buyers and sellers.
We send out a free monthly newsletter if you're interested in being kept informed on HIPs - http://www.thepartnershiplimited.com - and more than happy to take questions.
All the best
Peter
Flyfisher
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What constitutes 'on the market'? I imagine the government means it's on an estate agent's books, but as someone pointed out there are other ways to market a property.pambrose said:
pambrose
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Agreed that the phrase does get bandied about quite widely, but in this case, there is a definition in the act. (If you want the source document, go to point 3 on the following page; http://www.thepartnershiplimited.com/html/regulations.html)
If you decide to market i.e. promote your property publicly, then you are responsible for having a HIP. This means communicating this fact publicly; eg. putting an advert in a newsagent's window, or even in a church noticeboard (one of the more obscure examples the government gave!) It does not cover private sales; i.e. friends and family.
I would howeverraise the question - who is going to police such activity? Unreasonable to expect Trading Standards (who are responsible) for private sales, and anyway, it would have to take someone to report this as being the case. Short of acrimonious neighbour disputes, I can't see how this could happen (or a buyer gets gazumped and gets bitter with the vendor!)
However, for most people, it would be the estate agent's responsibility.
Hope this helps!
Peter
If you decide to market i.e. promote your property publicly, then you are responsible for having a HIP. This means communicating this fact publicly; eg. putting an advert in a newsagent's window, or even in a church noticeboard (one of the more obscure examples the government gave!) It does not cover private sales; i.e. friends and family.
I would howeverraise the question - who is going to police such activity? Unreasonable to expect Trading Standards (who are responsible) for private sales, and anyway, it would have to take someone to report this as being the case. Short of acrimonious neighbour disputes, I can't see how this could happen (or a buyer gets gazumped and gets bitter with the vendor!)
However, for most people, it would be the estate agent's responsibility.
Hope this helps!
Peter
pambrose said:
But this doesnt change the big problem, namely that energy assessments are simplified, ie ignore certain aspects of the reality of the situation. Thus they can come out very wrong sometimes. Either someone can assess the energy consumption, or they cant. I dont see the value in employing people that give wrong answers some of the time. Its, well, a strange thing to do.
The current situation with surveyors misdiagnosing damp does seem to show that what you say above is not how it would work, in several significant respects. This is what happens with damp:
Damages are considerable, to both vendor and buyer
Sales fall through regularly
Its hassle and money
Self regulation doesnt happen
Estate agents are entirely happy employing such folk.
NT
Nemesis
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I don't actually consider the energy inspection to be something I am remotely interested in when buying a house... particularly a period wreck.
What a waste of time and cash.
What a waste of time and cash.
pambrose
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To be fair - the value of energy inspections on period properties are questionable.
We did the first energy inspection about a year ago on a thatched property (if anyone's interested in seeing this, just drop us a note on our website) and yes, it came out pretty badly.
The type of people buying period properties are not interested in energy reports, but there is a place for them for "similar" properties ....
Peter
We did the first energy inspection about a year ago on a thatched property (if anyone's interested in seeing this, just drop us a note on our website) and yes, it came out pretty badly.
The type of people buying period properties are not interested in energy reports, but there is a place for them for "similar" properties ....
Peter
pambrose
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Not quite!!!!
He's only talking about newbuilds, and according to developers, its going to be a real stretch to do that!
Peter
http://www.thepartnershiplimited.com
He's only talking about newbuilds, and according to developers, its going to be a real stretch to do that!
Peter
http://www.thepartnershiplimited.com
pambrose
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Interestingly, newbuilds make up about 12% of the market apparently ... its larger than most people think.
That said, this number may grow because of this government initiative to build new properties on brownfield sites - aka back gardens ;-)
Peter
http://www.thepartnershiplimited.com
That said, this number may grow because of this government initiative to build new properties on brownfield sites - aka back gardens ;-)
Peter
http://www.thepartnershiplimited.com
Johneds
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The primary driver behind energy certificates is to comply with EU Law - so it ain't going away.
Peter, my concern is that the poor payback periods on most things might discourage people from investing in energy saving. Several of my EA contacts tell me that the majority of people see themselves staying in a house for around 5 years or less, so I can't see why anybody would spend three hundred quid on energy saving that has a payback of 10, 12, 15 years? Or even more in some cases.
Having done quite a few now what's your view on that?
Peter, my concern is that the poor payback periods on most things might discourage people from investing in energy saving. Several of my EA contacts tell me that the majority of people see themselves staying in a house for around 5 years or less, so I can't see why anybody would spend three hundred quid on energy saving that has a payback of 10, 12, 15 years? Or even more in some cases.
Having done quite a few now what's your view on that?
Nemesis
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Newbuilds on brownfield sites sadly are not just back gardens - many a pleasing period property is biting the dust to slap a block or several of flats on the site.
And I wonder what use an energy survey would be to yer average Building at Risk - with holes in the roof etc?
None at all.
I wonder also what a 'similar' property to a period property is?
It's a waste of money, although I appreciate that thepartnershipltd won't think so as it will be making dosh out of the whole farce.
And I'm sure it will simply be an even greater spur to the plastic window and door merchants to ply their trade.
And I wonder what use an energy survey would be to yer average Building at Risk - with holes in the roof etc?
None at all.
I wonder also what a 'similar' property to a period property is?
It's a waste of money, although I appreciate that thepartnershipltd won't think so as it will be making dosh out of the whole farce.
And I'm sure it will simply be an even greater spur to the plastic window and door merchants to ply their trade.
pambrose
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I think that you've hit the nail on the head and it does raise an interesting problem.
Although Energy Performance Certificates (EPCs) have to be produced for all properties under the EU regs, stipulating that these are done at first point of marketing is tricky, because owners will not see a return from an investment in fixing it.
I suppose, you could take the view that people won't actually fix it there and then, but buyers will understand what work they will need to do to make it more efficient, and potentially this will be reflected in the purchase price - obviously that's pure speculation, but I'd like to see it sold that way, cos otherwise, it'd be a tough sell!!!
Peter
http://www.thepartnershiplimited.com
Although Energy Performance Certificates (EPCs) have to be produced for all properties under the EU regs, stipulating that these are done at first point of marketing is tricky, because owners will not see a return from an investment in fixing it.
I suppose, you could take the view that people won't actually fix it there and then, but buyers will understand what work they will need to do to make it more efficient, and potentially this will be reflected in the purchase price - obviously that's pure speculation, but I'd like to see it sold that way, cos otherwise, it'd be a tough sell!!!
Peter
http://www.thepartnershiplimited.com
pambrose
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Nemesis
That was my point - period properties DON'T have similar type properties, hence the value of an EPC is less important.
I don't think that it will cause a rush to do home improvements by the vendor, as per my point in the earlier response - I just think that the EPC, like the Home Condition Report, will point out to buyers, work that they will potentially need to do to make the property more energy efficient.
Peter
That was my point - period properties DON'T have similar type properties, hence the value of an EPC is less important.
I don't think that it will cause a rush to do home improvements by the vendor, as per my point in the earlier response - I just think that the EPC, like the Home Condition Report, will point out to buyers, work that they will potentially need to do to make the property more energy efficient.
Peter
Johneds
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Evelyn, I can assure you that no PVC seller is going to get any mileage out of these certificates. Quite the opposite. A lot of people currently fit uPVC windows because they think they will save some of the cost in lower energy bills - and the PVC Companies obviously use this as a selling point. In fact payback periods are at least 75 years and often more than 100 years. So when people become more aware of that will they be so keen to invest?
Nemesis
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Watch the rush to fit plastic windows as a selling point... I have no doubt at all the uPVC merchants will use the certs in their ad hype - and would be buyers will be using the thing to negotiate prices down.
I know exactly what will be pointed out to buyers re my period home - rip out the sashes with original glass and fit DG. Most will fall for it.
Complete waste of time and money as far as I am concerned. Not something I would be remotely interested in.
[Open Image] [Hosted by PhotoGalaxy.com]
Building at Risk:
2006
Pear Tree Cottage is a lovely late 18th century rubble-built building with pan-tiled roof, with a matching one storey attached outbuilding. Two storeys high, the upper storey is accessed by stone steps. With its irregularly positioned windows and doors, the whole building has a lot of character.
Unfortunately, Pear Tree Cottage is also in an awful state of repair. Neglected and empty, it has holes in the roof, and the right chimney has been completely removed. With boarded windows and doors, the place looks the picture of decay and dereliction. However, given some attention the cottage could be transformed. It has great potential for residential use, and has the added bonus of an outbuilding. The first challenge will be finding out who the current owner is, but we feel that this cottage is really worth the effort! Swift action needs to be taken, as the building is deteriorating very quickly.
Hamsterley is situated to the south-west of Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
I know exactly what will be pointed out to buyers re my period home - rip out the sashes with original glass and fit DG. Most will fall for it.
Complete waste of time and money as far as I am concerned. Not something I would be remotely interested in.
[Open Image] [Hosted by PhotoGalaxy.com]
Building at Risk:
2006
Pear Tree Cottage is a lovely late 18th century rubble-built building with pan-tiled roof, with a matching one storey attached outbuilding. Two storeys high, the upper storey is accessed by stone steps. With its irregularly positioned windows and doors, the whole building has a lot of character.
Unfortunately, Pear Tree Cottage is also in an awful state of repair. Neglected and empty, it has holes in the roof, and the right chimney has been completely removed. With boarded windows and doors, the place looks the picture of decay and dereliction. However, given some attention the cottage could be transformed. It has great potential for residential use, and has the added bonus of an outbuilding. The first challenge will be finding out who the current owner is, but we feel that this cottage is really worth the effort! Swift action needs to be taken, as the building is deteriorating very quickly.
Hamsterley is situated to the south-west of Newcastle-upon-Tyne.