Help needed for my first solo plumbing job

[FamilyWiggs]

Well, I think this is a good example of where not to start if attempting DIY plumbing.

Well, I'm sorry but I have to disagree. I started my attempt at DIY plumbing by putting in a new trap and getting the pipe out of the wall; a job I managed to do very well and with little trouble. This is a whole new issue. And please don't tell me that had I called a plumber s/he would have checked the waste didn't leak first because I wouldn't believe that at all.

Even so, I'm still going to try and finish this job myself. And if I can't and I have to call someone else in...at least I've tried. And I won't let it dent my confidence

Well done - keep it up. I can't remember if I've ever had a piece of plumbing that didn't fail the initial leak test... :roll:

 

[robgil]

Well, I think this is a good example of where not to start if attempting DIY plumbing.

Well, I'm sorry but I have to disagree. I started my attempt at DIY plumbing by putting in a new trap and getting the pipe out of the wall; a job I managed to do very well and with little trouble. This is a whole new issue. And please don't tell me that had I called a plumber s/he would have checked the waste didn't leak first because I wouldn't believe that at all.

Even so, I'm still going to try and finish this job myself. And if I can't and I have to call someone else in...at least I've tried. And I won't let it dent my confidence

You shouldn't need a plumber to fix this DWB, Its all pretty self explanatory stuff, providing you are confident then you will figure it out.
This is one of the bigger projects ive worked on , when you are faced with doing the pipe fitting in buildings like this then its probably best to get a plumber, there were days when i would have jumped at the chance to put a trap on a belfast sink.

http://www.peri.at/ww/en/projects.cfm/fuseaction/showreference/reference_ID/1091/referencecategory_ID/65.cfm

 

[FamilyWiggs]

I agree Rob. Not quite sure what Lime meant, but IMHO in terms of "bigger" DIY plumbing jobs to start with, fitting a plastic waste trap to a sink and sticking it out through a wall is pretty low key.

I say that as a self-taught DIY plumber who has worked up from simple projects to replumbing whole houses and fitting central heating throughout this place, fitting new showers and loos, etc, etc. It has given me great satisfaction and saved shedloads of wonga - and strikes me as very much in keeping with the ethos of this forum.

Anything involving copper or water under pressure would have been a bigger job to start with. I'm sure Jaqy will get to those in time though, on the back of a successful job here.Next steps up to expand her knowledge and confidence will be projects like plumbing in the washing machine or dishwasher, or adding a water softener under that sink. 8)

There is nothing particularly difficult in theory about plumbing that patience, the application of careful practical skills, a good book and willing t'internet forum can't overcome. The regs are also relatively simple when compared to Part P electrickery for example.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

I bought myself a Wonderbra
For fourteen ninety nine,

I never realised she and Wonderbras were so old!

 

[Flyfisher]

Seems like both should be listed as national treasures.

 

[Feltwell]

I'm just slightly concerned that FW has edited that quote above so it looks like I am the one buying the wonderbra.......

 

[Flyfisher]

I'd like to think we're all fairly open-minded and non-judgemental on here. Your, er, 'domestic' arrangements are not for us to judge. :wink:

At least FW didn't send it to Wikileaks. :lol:

 

[Feltwell]

I may need scaffolding, but not that type!!

If you ever go on corporate-type team events, when they do the "ice-breaker" at the start - one they often use is "Introduce yourself and tell everyone something they don't already know about you".

I've always been tempted to finish the intro with "and what you all don't know about me is that at weekends my name is Lisa". Just to see if anyone believes me!

 

[Penners]

You shouldn't need a plumber to fix this DWB

I agree, too. I don't think you mentioned originally that the waste was already fitted to the sink, Jaqy, and I'm sure your analysis is correct - teh putty is old and brittle, and the waste has probably been bashed about a bit before you got it. So it's leaking.

You have to get that old waste out. FF's suggestion of making a sort of tommy-bar to hold its spokes while the nut is turned underneath is an excellent one - I suggest you soak the nut and the thread with WD-40 a few hours before you try this.

If you still can't get the the joint undone, try applying some heat to the nut (NOT the porcelain) to get it good and hot. This might expand it enough to allow you to turn it.

If all else fails you may have to get the thing off with an angle-grinder.

Once the old waste is out, clean up thoroughly around the waste hole inside the sink, to get all the old putty off. Then fit a new waste, using the rubber-washer-and-LS-X technique that I described above. It'll work, I promise you.

 

[Penners]

Do you realise that I just dragged a thread back ON topic? :shock:

That's a first! I am proud.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

I may need scaffolding, but not that type!!

If you ever go on corporate-type team events, when they do the "ice-breaker" at the start - one they often use is "Introduce yourself and tell everyone something they don't already know about you".

I've always been tempted to finish the intro with "and what you all don't know about me is that at weekends my name is Lisa". Just to see if anyone believes me!

It's a this point I usually admit either that I once sat on Larry Grayson's knee, or that I once hitch-hiked to Amsterdam dressed in my sister's Brownie uniform. 8)

Do you realise that I just dragged a thread back ON topic? :shock:

That's a first! I am proud.

Newton's third law - to every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. Thread now back off topic! :wink:

 

[robgil]

I may need scaffolding, but not that type!!

or that I once hitch-hiked to Amsterdam dressed in my sister's Brownie uniform. 8)

i bet they loved you up the red light district. :shock:

 

[Tom]

I don't think you mentioned originally that the waste was already fitted to the sink, Jaqy, and I'm sure your analysis is correct - teh putty is old and brittle, and the waste has probably been bashed about a bit before you got it. So it's leaking.

This is true but I didn't anticipate it being a problem I'll know in the future!

I have already tried, with help, to remove the waste after soaking overnight with WD40. It's just not budging :evil: It doesn't help that the working space is so limited :roll: Before I have a go at grinding the whole thing out, I'm going to try lashings of anti-leaking stuff first....but what to use; LS-X, jointing compound, plumbers malt, silicone...? The underneath of this sink with rarely be seen (unless you stick your head right inside the cupboard) so I'm not fussed about how it looks as long as it works! So, what's the best thing to try?

If this fails, I could try heating it...although I'm not confident about doing that. I may have to get someone else to do that bit but if they crack my sink.... :shock: :twisted:

Taking out the sink to either work on it or put another one in is a serious last option. We already have the granite worktops fitted :roll: Still, if I have to, I have to. I'll just have to make the most of it. I'm still happy to do this and it's not getting me down...yet! I admit I had a brief moment earlier today when I thought, "I wish someone would just come and fix this" but that really is defeatist and not like me at all. I was really rather shocked at my short-term poor attitude :shock:

So, before I get the angle grinder out, what anti-leaking stuff should I use?

 

[robgil]

use a junior hack saw or similar, come at it from below. once you have cut through the nut whats left of it will expand outwards from the threaded shank on the waste and unscrew easily.
dont be tempted to tap it with a hammer or use any force like this as it will crack the sink.
if you want to try and plug it use the same thing that is on there already, you wont need lashings of it , a small amount smeared over the offending leak should do , adhesion is your goal here and not quantity.
dont use an angle grinder unless you remove the sink first or you are fully confident that you wont slip and have your hand off, and use a cutting disc.
edit - sometimes a drill with a hss bit can cut through the side of the nut, brass is nice and soft so this could also be an option. all you want to do is put a split in the nut to release the pressure, it will come off easily enough after this.

 

[Flyfisher]

The other thing to consider is what type of spanner is being used to turn the nut? I think the best type would be a type of 'ring-spanner'. I've seen them for immersion heaters, basically a hexagon punched out of a piece of flat steel, but I'm not sure if such things are easily available in the size needed for this particular application.

My reasoning is that with a ring-type spanner it's relatively easy to use a smallish hammer to tap the spanner and, hopefully, loosen the nut. The problem with this sort of old fitting is that years of grime and/or corrosion will be sticking the nut to the pipe thread. A gentle tapping action often works wonders, not only by applying enough force to turn the nut but also the tapping action helps to break up any sealing effect of the gunge on the thread. WD40 can also help in this regard, but I've often found that gentle tapping with a suitable hammer works wonders. I'd done it many time to loosen tap fittings in sinks and baths that have seized up due to limescale. But, as Robgil rightly points out, care is needed not to use too much force and break the sink itself.

But, unless the spanner is a good solid fit to the nut, tapping the spanner itself is less effective as it tends to just hammer the spanner off the nut, and can damage the nut in the process.

In the absence of a good fitting ring-spanner, it might still be worth tapping the nut with a smallish hammer anyway, to try to break up any corrosion/gunge causing it to stick. Tapping is the operative work here. It should be firm, but gentle enough that breaking the sink is not a risk.

Heating the nut is also a good idea, as Penners suggested, but it needs to be done fairly quickly and in such a way that only the nut (or mainly the nut) is heated and expands. If it's done too gently and too slowly then the pipe may heat up and expand at about the same rate, which is probably won't help. And, as already noted, it's all a bit tricky in situ.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Jaqy - I'd be inclined to try and undo it with a plumbers wrench (it is after all what they were designed for! They grip the nut tighter the hard you try to do/undo) fitted with a home-made expansion bar. A length of 22 or 28m pipe often does the trick.

You need to be very careful of your sink as you've worked out though. A bit of leverage can increase the stress considerably. However, unless you've resolved the cause of the leak, I doubt smearing ls-x or silicone all over the outside of the fittings will be anything more than a temporary fix.

Annoying how little jobs take up 3 days isn't it! :roll:

 

[worms]

A length of 22 or 28m pipe often does the trick.

A bit of leverage

You'll get some amount of leverage with 28m of pipe!

 

[TomW]

Pipe wrench or stillsons.
http://www.tooled-up.com/MicroCategory.asp?CID=30&SCID=324&MCID=1441

 

[Flyfisher]

The 'basin wrenches' on the same website might also be rather handy, though I've never used one so can't speak from personal experience.

Annoying how little jobs take up 3 days isn't it! :roll:

So true. So very true. :lol:

 

[Lime]

Jaqy - I'd be inclined to try and undo it with a plumbers wrench (it is after all what they were designed for!

They were designed to grip steel pipe or tube, not nuts.