Floor tiles? Pamments?

[robgil]

Are you sure it is concrete on there and not just a screed?

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Fluffy - there's a few previous threads I just searched out which might be helpful too. Not drawing attention here to my own meagre efforts, but I remember posting a few times about the floors I laid here... amazingly it is more than 3 years since I did the floors... which means I haven't finished all the little jobs in those rooms for that length of time either!

I quite like how the tradition in the final link below is being maintained on this thread - albeit with couple of "newcomers" since!

http://periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11101&p=138263&hilit=heather#p138263
http://periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11043&p=136939&hilit=heather#p136939
http://periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11011&p=136409&hilit=heather#p136409
http://periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9592&p=109410&hilit=heather#p109410

Good luck and keep us posted - especially with lost of pics!

Robin

 

[fluffytail10]

Well I set myself the task of seeing how easy it would be to expose one pamment. First of all I cut back the lino, that was a shock! The whole thing is really damp and covered in mould, as is the concrete underneath. Chipping through the top couple of mm was the hardest - did that using a cold chisel and lump hammer. Under that it just seems to be sandy stuff, and then under that the remnants of more lino!

I tried using a crowbar but was worried about the pressure it would exert on the underlying pamment, the whole floor moved slightly when I tried it, so it will be easy to shift I think.




I can only send 3 pics so more in a minute

 

[fluffytail10]

I can see how it could be hard work,my wrist is killing me after using that hammer - knees ok though. Can you get some sort of power tool that would cut the top layer of concrete? I could set it to 0.3cm and then just cut through that tough top layer, it would be very quick then and wouldn't damage the pamments at such a depth.

I find it amusing that both sections of lino ive found have an imitation pamment pattern on them - why not just have the pamments?

Ah well time for tea and sponge cake, will be hobnobs for all when I finish!

thanks for all your help and support :wink:

 

[robgil]

If you put a plate of wood on the pamment then use this to take the pressure of any leverage it should protect the pamment, levering it up will be the easiest way to do it , especially if there is just sand between the concrete and pamment.

 

[Zebra]

Oooh lovely.
Very nice. Looks in good condition too.
I find that big hammers give me sore wrists when using a bolster etc, so I just use a claw hammer...

 

[JoceAndChris]

Ooh that does look exciting Fluffy, don't think I'd be able to resist doing a few more! The concrete looks very thin - excellent!

 

[Penners]

Can you get some sort of power tool that would cut the top layer of concrete? I could set it to 0.3cm and then just cut through that tough top layer, it would be very quick then and wouldn't damage the pamments at such a depth.

Here's the type of tool that might do that job. But it comes with the following warning:

You can't rely on the fact that the screed on top of your pamments will be a constant thickness. So if you set the tool at the correct cutting depth for one area, don't just buzz blindly over the whole floor on that setting, or you could find yourself cutting grooves in some pamments where the screed suddenly gets thinner.

So far as I can see, this budget model has four fixed depth settings. If you're prepared to spend a bit more, you can get them with infinitely adjustable depth settings, which might make the job easier. Just google 'wall chaser'.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000T9UBA6/ref=asc_df_B000T9UBA63541676?smid=A3G8I6ZF6N4A8R&tag=googlecouk06-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22218&creativeASIN=B000T9UBA6

 

[Flyfisher]

I'd echo Penners' caution about relying on the thickness of the screed being constant. Imagine the horror of whizzing all over the floor with that rather fearsome-looking wall chaser - filling the room with concrete dust at the same time - only to discover you've scored a large proportion of the underlying pamments.

Frankly, with such a thin screed, I'm surprised it's proving so strenuous to remove by hand. I can understand that the first pamment would be difficult to uncover because there's no edge of the screed to work on and you have to 'bash' a hole in the screed - something that concrete/mortar will resist quite well - but now there are exposed edges robgil's diagram shows exactly how I'd tackle it. It should be almost effortless to lever up such a thin screed because concrete/mortar has very little strength against being prised apart. Zebra's suggestion of a simple claw hammer would be well worth a try.

 

[fluffytail10]

yes i'l certainly think hard before doing anything drastic with power tools. I shall certainly try robgil's method with the crow bar and the claw hammer too.

I am very tempted to continue, but shall hold fast - end of term is only two weeks away and then I can spend as long as I like on it. Think of doing as much as possible, and then while we pop off to botswana for a couple of weeks, we can leave it to dry out a bit.

We will also have to take out the kitchen units and put them back - is this just another big hammer job?

I can't thank you all enough for your help and suggestions
x

 

[Pford75]

I'd be more tempted to try a powered bolster chisel (most hire shops will have a 'breaker' which can be fitted with a chisel bit, rather than a point). If you can get this as flat to the floor as possible, rather than trying to break 'down'...you should be able to get underneath the screed. As the others have said - do be careful - this is one of those jobs where there are probably no shortcuts, but the end result will be worth it

 

[FamilyWiggs]

I bought an SDS drill from the orange and black DIY shed recently. It cost £49. I just bought a chisel ser for a tenner.

It's going to remove all the render off the back of the house. If it dies afterwards it'll still be cheaper than renting the kit.

Maybe an option for your concrete screed too? Although, like others, I also think it'll be very easy to lift that little bit with a crow bar.

 

[AMc]

The temptation to use power tools is strong when your arms hurt but bear in mind that the upper face of that pamment will be the finished floor of your room - it's worth taking the time to do it carefully by hand. IME using a grinder delicately is almost impossible.

Try and work out how to hold the hammer and chisel to avoid straining your wrists or giving yourself blisters and when you've had enough - stop - it's tempting to press on when you're tired or actually doing yourself damage that will slow you down over the whole job.

I buy Canadian Rigger gloves from www.cpc.co.uk (only worth it with other things to get the free delivery) for about 80p a pair. I wear them for almost every job and especially for this kind of thing as it means you end up with fewer cuts and scrapes which makes it easier to keep going and nicer to clean up. It's also nice to be able to shove your hands into a pile of rubble and dump it in a bucket without feeling like you've sanded down your hands at the end of the day.

Working alongside full time builders taught me that gloves, lump hammers and bolsters and saws are not tools to be treasured for life - when they stop working properly get another one and don't be tempted to pay extra for fancy grips etc. If the end comes off the hammer more than a couple of times spend £3.50 on a new one rather than hitting yourself in the face with the lump part. When you have a hole in the finger of the glove it goes in the bin.

 

[Zebra]

We will also have to take out the kitchen units and put them back - is this just another big hammer job?

No, it is possible that kitchen units can be unscrewed from the wall and taken out whole if you want to put them back. Just a question of getting to the screws which if I remember correctly would necessitate the worktop coming off first, and that may not survive being taken out, especially if tiles are on top of it. So you might have to take the tiles off to get the worktop off to get the cupboards out.

Big hammer job would probably about sum it up then.....

 

[Penners]

Assuming that your kitchen units are commercially manufactured, you should find that the worktops are secured on to the cupboards by screws, accessible from underneath. Lie on your back inside one of the cupboards (take the shelf out) and look upwards - you should see the screws through the top rails of the unit.

As Zebra said, once the worktop is off, you can then remove the screws holding the cupboards to the wall. They're probably secured by means of metal L-brackets, screwed to the cheeks of the units in the bit that protrudes behind the back-panel.

Removing the worktops is probably the only part of the job that could cause any deterioration of your decor. It all depends on how they've been fitted.

 

[fluffytail10]

Well lifeting the floor has been put on hold till October, we have a very nice man to do it £500 and he'll also uncover the other inglenook too.

anyway being disappointed that I have yet again been forbidden from touching the floor in the tv room, I decided to see what the study floor was made of.

Pulled back the carpet, and this time found some sort of chip board. Used a chisel to make a hole, and then was a bit surprised when it disappeared through the hole. I manged to pull it back, and poked my finger in....nothing but a strong breeze. So picked up an old garden cane and that disappeared completely. Got one of those longer bean pole ones and poked it in to find that about 1m down I could feel rubble and soil etc.

So is this a cellar? That part of the house used to be pub, and where is there strong draft coming from?

 

[Penners]

That part of the house used to be pub, and where is there strong draft coming from?

If it used to be a pub, it's much more likely to be a strong draught. :lol: :lol: :lol:

As you seem prepared to make holes in the chipboard floor, I suggest you make a somewhat bigger one and poke your head down there with a torch.

 

[MdB]

Or a slightly smaller hole and put a camera down with a flash.

 

[fluffytail10]

Well I did as you suggested and enlarged the hole. Seems to have been whitewashed, is that a shelf on the left? and a door at the back?

I cant believe it is a door or window, its a long way underground, mayb theres a flight of steps buried outside......

 

[fluffytail10]

a couple more