Dale farm apply to English Heritage for listing

[Matt Green]

I would also add that for some reason, whenever people are trying to illustrate the challenges of house affordability, they always quote some kind of comparison between average house price and earnings.

That would be because my fathers first house was priced at five times his yearly earnings in 1972 and the same house was priced at nine times mine in 2005. It's a reasonably relevant metric.

Part of the problem today is that many first time buyers want to move into the 'house of their dreams', seduced by interior design magazines and property programmes.

This might get a little more common now the market is sluggish and falling. speaking as someone who had a fair advantage in wanting to tackle a house with damp/insects/decay: during the boom we were routinely beaten to houses by developers who were helped by crooked estate agents who could see double commission when the house was re-sold and greedy vendors who didn't want the hassle of selling to young non-cash buyers. You are right to some extent though- when we sold our first house a young couple wanted a £6K discount because the walls would need to be completely re-plastered to be as smooth as the new-build they had just seen.

We sold it to a 'lovely' old lady that stole our shed and planted daffs in the French drain.

 

[Pford75]

There's also the 'engagement dynamic'...historically couples tended to have a much longer period of engagement, during which they saved for their new home. Today, it seems that people want to shack-up together instantly, with no real period of saving....or alternatively, to blow £20k on a wedding!

A friend of the family was moaning about not being able to afford their first house after getting married - they had 3 foreign holidays in the 12 months leading up to their marriage and spent 3 weeks in the carribean for their honeymoon! I would imagine that these holidays alone would have paid their deposit.

That would be because my fathers first house was priced at five times his yearly earnings in 1972 and the same house was priced at nine times mine in 2005. It's a reasonably relevant metric.

But the house in 2005 wasn't necessarily representative of the same 'point' in the market. Areas, styles etc. ebb and flow. I will take some convincing that there are no houses available at five times your yearly earnings.

 

[robgil]

In all fairness very very few couples can afford to save up the deposit for a house, unless they get help from parents or whatever, we have an entire generation of folk who cannot afford to get on the property ladder.

 

[JoceAndChris]

There are some lovely Viccy properties (well, could be lovely) in Grantham and Sleaford well under 100k. There's even a 2 bed one at 65k on at the moment. Alright, I'd turn my nose up at it, but then we had the bank of Mum and Dad for the three properties we own and co-own.

I have friends with young babies going back to work to afford their vast mortgages. You do have to wonder at what people prioritise.

 

[robgil]

There are some lovely Viccy properties (well, could be lovely) in Grantham and Sleaford well under 100k. There's even a 2 bed one at 65k on at the moment. Alright, I'd turn my nose up at it, but then we had the bank of Mum and Dad for the three properties we own and co-own.

I have friends with young babies going back to work to afford their vast mortgages. You do have to wonder at what people prioritise.

Usually somewhere nice Joce although I think most would be happy with a roof over their heads.

 

[biffvernon]

Of course it is perfectly possible to build a house for less than £5000. I know; I've done it.

 

[robgil]

Did that include the land Biff?

 

[Flyfisher]

There's also the 'engagement dynamic'...historically couples tended to have a much longer period of engagement, during which they saved for their new home. Today, it seems that people want to shack-up together instantly, with no real period of saving....or alternatively, to blow £20k on a wedding!

A friend of the family was moaning about not being able to afford their first house after getting married - they had 3 foreign holidays in the 12 months leading up to their marriage and spent 3 weeks in the carribean for their honeymoon! I would imagine that these holidays alone would have paid their deposit.

We didn't get married until we could afford to buy a house, our wedding certainly didn't cost £20k (more like £2k) and we couldn't afford a honeymoon.

OK, OK, stop the violins. :wink:

 

[Feltwell]

Did you live in a cardboard box in the middle of the road, get up half an hour before you went to bed and all you had to eat was gravel?? :wink:

 

[Flyfisher]

Aye, an' you try telling the young people of today, an' they'll not believe you.

 

[biffvernon]

Did that include the land Biff?

No! Land prices with planning permission start at several tens of thousands.

 

[LadyArowana]

Did that include the land Biff?

No! Land prices with planning permission start at several tens of thousands.

Which takes us neatly back to the original topic.

 

[Pford75]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-15163750

Seems the travellers application for a judicial review was thrown out...

Mr Justice Ouseley has refused all three saying it was "astonishing" that residents had delayed their legal action almost to the day of eviction.

I agree - This is not about 'justice' it seems like a clear abuse of process to try and drag things out as long as possible

 

[Flyfisher]

Of course it's an abuse of process. What I don't understand is why the judge thought the delay was "astonishing". I would have thought it was entirely predicable, given that it enables the travellers to stay on the site for as long as possible.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that their lawyers are even now searching for yet another stalling action.

The whole sorry saga is a textbook case about the legal bullying of law-abiding people. Imagine the outcry if the council had decided to take their lead from the travellers and simply ignored any law they found inconvenient - they could have sent in the bulldozers years ago and then let the travellers complain their way through the courts. Or perhaps there wouldn't have been an outcry? I imagine that any compensation that might finally have been awarded to the travellers would have been substantially less than £18m.

It's a mad world alright.

 

[Penners]

Of course it is perfectly possible to build a house for less than £5000. I know; I've done it.

Yup - me too. It was modest, but we loved it.

 

[philpjuk100]

Of course it is perfectly possible to build a house for less than £5000. I know; I've done it.

£5000! you couldn`t get the windows for that! :wink:

 

[Penners]

Biff could!

 

[philpjuk100]

Oooh!,could he do some for me for that?

 

[biffvernon]

That looks a very fine house, Penners. It would certainly be listed if it had survived.

Imagine the outcry if the council had decided to take their lead from the travellers and simply ignored any law they found inconvenient

In Louth a couple of years ago Lincolnshire County Council built a large extension to a school in a position, uncomfortably close to neighbouring houses and not in accordance with the planning permission granted by East Lindsey District Council who thought the building was going in a different position. There was an outcry by the residents concerned but the County overruled the District, retrospective planning permission was granted and the building stands.

Of course this is a completely different situation as the County Council are not an unruly bunch of unwashed who would steal the shirt off your back and eat hedgehogs and are above the law.

 

[Pford75]

No...the difference is that they applied for retrospective PP and got it..whereas those at Dale Farm did not. Pretty simple really.