A light fitting or not?

[Nina]

We have had to have our house completely rewired and we had ceiling lights and lots of wall sockets put in so we could choose whatever type of light we fancied. Some of our rooms had no ceiling lights just some old markings on the wall from old lights (originally gas?). We had no problem with getting cables running through to ceilings (without disturbing cornicing etc). However our sitting room ceiling at the time had two huge holes in it which no doubt made it easier for the electrician ...not much ceiling to damage really. There is no sign of any n ice centre rose in any of our rooms but I am sure it would not look out of place in yours. Love your window and shutters by the way. How old is your property? ... I am sure you have mentioned it previously but can't find the thread.

Nina

 

[sidd]

We are in the final twitches of a full rewire, with many 5A circuits as people have suggested. For example, in the main bedroom, we have 3x separate 5A circuits: one for the 2 main floorstanding lights, and one for each side of the bed. We have banks of 3 switches by the door and either side of the bed so all lights can be switched from anywhere.

Also I previously wired a house with X10. It was too complicated and unrelable for me. But I have been using wireless switches called Wise Controls. This was very successful for planning the kitchen lighting and changing everything before we actually rewired. Now I will reuse the controls for the outdoor lighting.

But don't be afraid to dig into Walls. Lime plaster is easy to touch up, especially if you keep a tub of readymix handy for small jobs.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Interesting...thanks.

We are in the final twitches of a full rewire

That sounds painful! I hope you recover!

How old is your property?

I think it's around 1770 ish but I'm not completely certain. I think there was something here before, judging by what's been found in the garden, and I really don't know if anything of a previous structure was incorporated into the current building. But let's say Georgian for want of a better word.

Thanks for nice comments, no there aren't any fancy mouldings here at all, so I feel bad putting them in, but I love them so much! I really fancy a full-on cake ceiling in the drawing room.
http://www.bondsplastermouldings.co.uk/section.php/218/1/friezes__beading_and_dado

It's important, this decision about lighting, because it's not just the bedroom actually- none of the rooms have ceiling lights. They all have these light fittings I dislike (that take up wall space):

http://www.thelightingsuperstore.co.uk/product.asp?productid=33171

We plan to get rid of all of these eventually.
The other thing that should perhaps put me off sticking chandeliers everywhere, though, is this business of the horrifically ugly bulbs we're going to be forced to buy. Is it really true that one day it will be impossible to buy these elegant bulbs?:

http://www.lightbulbs-direct.com/product/1794/grand-siecle-32x125mm-40w-ses-e14-clear/

 

[JoceAndChris]

Just read this thread from last December- very useful, thanks to all who contributed to it.
http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/for...0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=light+fitting&start=15

I can't do simple white plastic myself, but admire those that can.

 

[Moo]

It sounds really convenient, but also involving more drilling out of the lime plaster- and then re filling, but perhaps worth the effort?

Our plaster (lime and otherwise) wasn't affected, because all the sockets (3 amp and 15amp) are in the skirting boards.

 

[JoceAndChris]

That was good then- so did you have old skirtings removed, wires put in behind where they'd go, bits cut out of skirting to fit in the sockets, and then skirtings put back? Or new skirtings for the job?

 

[Flyfisher]

We were completely re-wired about ten years ago and had separate points (on their own circuit) installed, alongside the power sockets in every room. This has meant that we can plug in lamps wherever we wish and they're all switched on from the door.
(This is probably exactly the same as the system Fly has described, but I don't understand all his expert technical talk!)

I didn't mean the type of solution Moo described. Not that there's anything wrong with it; on the contrary, if embarking on a full re-wire then it's a very good solution.

I was referring to 'home automation' systems, of which X-10 is just one example, whereby the existing switches and plugs are replaced with 'intelligent' switches and plugs. These 'intelligent' devices can 'talk' to each other over the existing wiring. So, for example, the light switch isn't really directly wired to a particular lamp socket but it just transmits ON or OFF (or DIM) messages across the existing wiring. The message includes an 'address' and the lamp socket with the corresponding address will react to the command. But the receiving device could just as easily be a plug socket with a lamp plugged into it. Thus, the wall switch can be 'programmed' to turn on the power to the bedside lamp and without requiring any changes to the existing wiring.

Using the same basic principles it becomes possible for one light switch to operate many lamps or it becomes possible to turn off every light in the house with a single press of a button. Or turn them all on. Or many other combinations. And the programmed functions can be easily changed without having to do any re-wiring. Such systems do add a level of complexity in terms of programming the initial functions but thereafter operation is no more complex than normal.

I only raised the option because it's a possible solution that requires no re-wiring and it therefore avoids the need to channel walls and drill through walls etc. I entirely agree that, in many cases, such re-wiring is not a big problem.

 

[JoceAndChris]

You have blown my mind Flyfisher.

Let me just finish with the copper and the mangle, then I'll sit meself down with beef tea in front of the roaring beechwood fire to contemplate your outlandish invention.

 

[Moo]

That was good then- so did you have old skirtings removed, wires put in behind where they'd go, bits cut out of skirting to fit in the sockets, and then skirtings put back? Or new skirtings for the job?

I've no idea how it was done, but the skirtings didn't get removed. The chaps must have just made the holes from the outside.
As far as the actual wires were concerned, so many floorboards had to come up for the wiring & plumbing that I guess they just fed them in from underneath.

 

[Flyfisher]

Let me just finish with the copper and the mangle, then I'll sit meself down with beef tea in front of the roaring beechwood fire to contemplate your outlandish invention.

Unfortunately, I can claim no credit for such an invention. Actually, such systems are not particularly new or overly sophisticated, certainly nowhere near the complexity of your PC. Loads of info on the web if you wish to search for "home automation".

But I admit they are not exactly mainstream and, somehow, can seem to go 'against the grain' of a period property. Having said that, we're discussing such things using very sophisticated technology wrapped up in our PCs (and Macs, Moo) and the internet infrastructure so there is room for coexistence.

 

[JoceAndChris]

There is room for co-existance, epecially if the technology is invisible. Living in a period property needn't be a gritty experience of cold and dark, laundry that won't dry, mice running into the bed, baths full of wasps, need it?

I've very interested in your wires and would like to explore them further. :wink:

 

[Flyfisher]

Living in a period property needn't be a gritty experience of cold and dark, laundry that won't dry, mice running into the bed, baths full of wasps, need it?

Well, not only all those things. . . . :wink:

 

[Feltwell]

No, you forgot 2 of the biggest factors - poverty and the inability to ever finish all the jobs! :wink:

 

[JoceAndChris]

I'm still stuck on the chandelier and ceiling rose in the bedroom dilemna from an aesthetic viewpoint. The Georgians here made do with candles, the Victorians with gas lamps I suppose. I'm the first here to want fancy lights, and I feel suitably guilty to make such a permanent and drastic change.

But is it any more wrong than wanting a shower? (which I haven't got either!)

Anyway, I'm pretty certain we're going to London very soon to remove the chandeliers from our flat - but before we do, is there any way of knowing if a reed ceiling would support the weight of a medium rose and chandelier?

If my modification of the ceiling brought it down I would definitely have to throw myself in that rainwater tank.

 

[Flyfisher]

No real need to feel guilty; you're hardly the first person to want electric lights in a period property. You made the point yourself with the Georgian candles and Victorian gaslamps; old properties get changed by their owners, even listing isn't intended to prevent that, it's the nature of the changes that matter. Sensitive additions are rarely a problem. For all our love of old buildings I suspect very few people would be prepared to actually live in, say, 17th century conditions, in which case such empty properties would very quickly decay and be lost forever. Against that fate, the addition of some new-fangled lights seems like a fair deal.

As for the light fitting itself, I don't think it's a good idea to fix it to a reed ceiling anymore than fixing it to a plasterboard ceiling. It's the underlying beams you should fix it to, and the weight of the lights should not, therefore, be a problem (well, within reason!) nor should they cause any damage to the house itself (bar a few screwholes).

 

[JoceAndChris]

Thanks again Flyfisher for your generous reassurance that I'm not committing a crime worthy of reporting to SPAB... I feel better.

As for the weight, yes, sorry, just realised that it's a silly question- Chris puts very long screws through those roses and the beam is taking the weight of both light and rose; I'd forgotten.

 

[Penners]

I'm still stuck on the chandelier and ceiling rose in the bedroom dilemna from an aesthetic viewpoint.

Well - your house, your taste, your choice. But here are a couple of thoughts from someone who shouldn't really be allowed within a mile of an interior design project.

Firstly, do you really want to lie in bed and look up at a chandelier? Pendant lighting of any kind tends to be harsh and unfriendly at the best of times (except perhaps when its a chandelier hung over a grand dining table), but I reckon looking up at one from a prone position would be extremely uncomfortable.

So I'm with Schoolmarm, Moo, et al. Lamps, dear, lamps. Dot them around the room in a variety of shapes, sizes and girliness. Then you can change the lighting to suit your mood, and never need be submitted to glare. At least one of them should, ideally, be wired to a light switch by the door, and be sure to two-way wire it to another switch by the bed.

As for the ceiling rose and the cornicing... are you sure? Of course, they're archetypically Georgian, but don't you think they're more suited to grand drawing rooms and dining rooms? Unless your bedroom is very high-ceilinged and aristocratic, I can't help feeling that they'll be a bit overwhelming.

Now repeat after me: "Sod off, Penners, and mind your own business".

 

[JoceAndChris]

No, no, please don't sod off dear Mr P, if no one keeps us in check it's going to be llamas and peacocks in the garden, full-on cake plasterwork all over, and Chris is even worse, he wants to turn the whole place into a gentleman's club with silver decanters and stags' heads and naked geisha girls everywhere.... restraint is not what we're good at! So I really do need someone to say "calm down" and "are you sure?" from time to time!

The room in question is medium sized but does have a high ceiling and an extraordinarily lofty feeling as the house is so elevated: you see the whole valley spread out with the sun setting dramatically on the horizon by Belvoir Castle from the bedroom, and also, this room is on the ground floor- as you walk in the hallway you'd see that cornice and chandelier, if the door were ajar, if that makes sense.

Upstairs and downstairs have a much more servanty feel, but I really do want to introduce a bit of decadent splendour to the ground floor in terms of furnishings and decoration... and I have no qualms about this when it's not a permanent change to the structure of the building (as mouldings would be), as it leaves no imprint.

I've lain in bed and looked at a crystal basket chandelier for the last few years- it was on a dimmer switch so could be turned to a soft light, and it sent the most amazing shards and ripples of rainbow light all over the place, and I miss it.

You see I've never really recovered from the fact that wasn't born as the Duchess of Cavendish 300 years ago. :wink:

 

[Penners]

I've never really recovered from the fact that wasn't born as the Duchess of Cavendish

Well, if you had been, this would have been your Suffolk manor, and I and your other serfs would have been revolting:

Actually, I too have always felt that there was some sort of cosmic cock-up around the time I was born. I've always had the nagging feeling that I should been the son-and-heir of some oil billionnaire, and never had to work a day in my life.

Ho hum.

 

[JoceAndChris]

What a gorgeous house! Is it your next one? I do hope so, and that you will invite me for cucumber sandwiches on the lawn please.

I completely understand your feelings about the misplacement and oil billionaires. And, esteemed grand cousin of the great Nevill Coghill, you could never be revolting!