Windows: microscopic paint analysis

[JoceAndChris]

Looks like they changed their name in 2012

http://www.oldhousestore.co.uk/allback-linseed-paint-colours-555-p.asp

This page is interesting, talks about linseed paint and also Holkams

http://www.linseedpaintcompany.co.uk/

 

[JoceAndChris]

"The Swedish company, Allbäck makes linseed oil paint. It has been sold in the UK for over a decade under the name of Holkham Paint. In 2012 it changed its name to Linseed Paint and Wax Co. Since that is almost exactly our name, I take it they are trying to confuse buyers. Their product is almost pure linseed oil, with a tiny amount of metal driers added. It takes longer to dry than our own and is not free from the scourge of mildew. The German company Aglaia sells a natural oil paint, which is a concoction of linseed and other plant oils and terpenes (natural solvents) and metal driers. Ours is somewhere in between these two in its formula. All are expensive. You'll struggle to talk your painter into using them. They are none of them quick drying."

Taken from my last link

 

[Feltwell]

You're in luck I took a few the other week. I've posted more here

This gives a good idea of the gloss finish from "Linseed Paint Company", up at the Whitby Cottage on a heavily restored (1930's?) window.

And a close up

Compared to "Holkham now called "Linseed Paint and Wax Company"

The density of paint might not be such a problem on dark colours, I think carbon and iron oxide pigments are more opaque than the zinc oxide used as a base for the light colours.

Agbagb - to drag an old post back up - did you notice any difference in drying time between the Linseed Paint Co product and the Holkham/Allback?

I'm trying to decide if to persist with the Holkham paint, albeit sourcing it elsewhere now, or switching my painting to the Linseed Paint Co product. I like the Holkham paint but the cream colour I've painted so far does seem to show dirt very easily on horizontal surfaces and the drying time is a pain.

I'm switching to a much darker green colour and am debating if to use up my Holkham stocks (Spruce Green) or to switch, questioning if the Linseed Paint Co equivalent will be any tougher for being glossier and if it will dry any quicker. Their website claims so but feedback from someone neutral who's tried both would be even better!

 

[paulb33]

I'm switching to a much darker green colour and am debating if to use up my Holkham stocks (Spruce Green) or to switch, questioning if the Linseed Paint Co equivalent will be any tougher for being glossier and if it will dry any quicker. Their website claims so but feedback from someone neutral who's tried both would be even better!

Not answering your question, but Histocolour imports paint from Sweden. The dark brown has gone on well for us (so far). Its easy to source and there's a wide variety of colours.

 

[Feltwell]

How long has it been taking to dry Paul? What sort of temperatures have you been using it in, has it been put on outside recently?

 

[paulb33]

How long has it been taking to dry Paul? What sort of temperatures have you been using it in, has it been put on outside recently?

Its wet today (thunder & lightning....for heaven's sake), otherwise I'd post some photos of the installed timbers. Will try later.

We've applied two coats of Histocolour on the bargeboards and windows, thus far. Third coat will be applied once installed. Its taken 3-4 days in a coolish (65 degrees?) workshop. The first coat was diluted with Balsaam Turpentine to aid penetration. Its heartening to see how far into the wood it penetrates, when viewed in cross section.

Subsequent coats are diluted with linseed oil. The two coated finish is nicely uniform in tone, but patchy in gloss finish. Areas of matt showing through on a gloss finish. Its looking like a thin third coat will give it a more uniform satin finish.

The hardest part is getting the joiners to paint it thinly. Despite constant nagging they still insist on boshing it on and the thicker coats really delay matters. The resistance that I got to using Linseed Oil is astonishing. At least my guys are prepared to give it a go. It takes a lot of time on this kind of scale. Not something that the usual approach to co-ordinating tradesmen, scaffolding etc will easily support.

The MD of Histocolour is a mine of information and eager to encourage UK interest in linseed oil. They source from Ottosson Paints, Sweden - a very well established firm. If interested, PM me and I'll send you his contact details.

The Histocolour website is confusing. Ottossan colour charts are shown here: http://histocolour.co.uk/category/18/Ottosson-Paints. They happened to have a colour very close to what I need (Italian Green Umber) which put me onto them in the first place.

I've no affilitation, BTW. Just eager to acknowledge good service and apparently a good product.

 

[wobs]

[Agbagb - to drag an old post back up - did you notice any difference in drying time between the Linseed Paint Co product and the Holkham/Allback?

Drying time for LPC was noticably shorter. When I did my sash window (still finishing off) over winter, with the sashes removed, and window boarded up, I was able to paint on an evening, and the next day was just about touch dry, but a bit tacky. Only where there was a draft to the winter air, did drying take a few days.

It loves dust though, and the glossyness "enhances" the dust bits in the paint.

I'm trying to decide if to persist with the Holkham paint, albeit sourcing it elsewhere now, or switching my painting to the Linseed Paint Co product. I like the Holkham paint but the cream colour I've painted so far does seem to show dirt very easily on horizontal surfaces and the drying time is a pain.

My last house had brick red and cream from Holkhams, and the cream had a slight silky/gloss sheen to it, whereas the red was more matt. Although there were slight variations in this throughout the finish. Mrs Wobs commented recently how inconsistent it was in this regard, although it may have been down to my lack of skill.

I'm switching to a much darker green colour and am debating if to use up my Holkham stocks (Spruce Green) or to switch, questioning if the Linseed Paint Co equivalent will be any tougher for being glossier and if it will dry any quicker. Their website claims so but feedback from someone neutral who's tried both would be even better!

LPC quotes a longer time between re-painting, but of course one cannot say until this is needed.

I see pros & cons between the two. I found the LPC bit more forgiving in the "no such thing as too thin" rule. I have done it a bit thicker in the past, and it has dried in a reasonable time without wrinkles. Still far thinner than gloss of course.

You'll see in the picture below, that agbagb has the same problem that I had, in that the groove collects either debris or thick paint, which wrinkles:

And a close up

This is difficult to overcome, but worth bearing in mind before you start.

Never used Histocolour, but would be interested in anyone's opinions on it.

 

[agbagb]

I can't give a definitive answer on the drying time comparison as the conditions where very different. But I have a feeling the LPC is quicker.

I read somewhere, the other week , about using UV b light to cure linseed. Outside on a sunny day would be good for more than just the heat.

 

[paulb33]

I can't give a definitive answer on the drying time comparison as the conditions where very different. But I have a feeling the LPC is quicker.

I read somewhere, the other week , about using UV b light to cure linseed. Outside on a sunny day would be good for more than just the heat.

Histocolour has done research to support UPVC curing. It shortens drying (curing) time to minutes.

http://www.histocolour.co.uk/article/Linseed-Oil-Paint-drying-times-and-UV-light

We've too many timbers (and time on our side) to test this.

 

[paulb33]

Some photos of our experience with Histocolour Linseed Oil paint here:

http://redhouserestoration.wordpress.com/2014/04/19/histocolour-linseed-oil-paint/

 

[paulb33]

An update on Histocolour Linseed Oil Paint. Very pleased with two coats on timber and cast iron. Covers well, nice depth of colour.....and smells lovely.

Have to watch the dust while it dries, mind.

More shots here: www.redhouserestoration.wordpress.com

 

[Zebra]

Ooh I like that brown. I'm thinking of repainting my white linseed oil painted fascias in a colour a bit like that. What's the name of that colour?

 

[paulb33]

Ooh I like that brown. I'm thinking of repainting my white linseed oil painted fascias in a colour a bit like that. What's the name of that colour?

Italian Green Umber. UK supplier is Histocolour. They import from Ottosson of Sweden, it seems.

Other Ottoson colours here: http://histocolour.co.uk/category/18/Ottosson-Paints

What I like, is that its not too GLOSS. Two coats have a nice satin sheen.

It's also almost a perfect match for the base coat revealed by the microscopic analysis - a happy fluke.

 

[Feltwell]

Well.....

I've decided to take the plunge with the Linseed Paint Company product, as Agbagb and Wobs did. So far the service is great - I sent an old Holkham's swatch off to Ross at Linseed Paint Company, he sent me back a very nice little sampler of different greens that he'd prepared, one of which was spot on to the colour I was after.

It's clearly a very small outfit (Ross and his other half I think) but he is wealth of knowledge about paint. He claims that his paint does dry more quickly that Holkhams/Allback, but is quite clear that you're still better off leaving it as long as possible between coats to help avoid wrinkling - the big advantage being that if it's at least touch dry more quickly then it should be better if it gets rained on. He was very upfront about the shortcomings of both his product and linseed paint in general, as well as the positives.

He also had a very interesting idea to avoid some of the shortcomings of linseed paint, which I won't discuss on here as I wouldn't want to give his ideas away to his competition. Suffice to say it was very unproven but shows distinct promise to enable you to recoat much more quickly than at present.

Once I've tried the paint I shall report back my opinion.....