Windows: microscopic paint analysis

[JoceAndChris]

Yes, that's true - my house also had balck and white windows in the early 20thC, though originally I'm sure they'd have been green.

But I think all white everywhere is a very modern thing.

Love Nigel's windows in Little Green's Invisible Green.


http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13918&hilit=gardens+for+charity&start=15


If I was going to use a brown this might be interesting

http://www.farrow-ball.com/tanner's-brown/colours//fcp-product/100255

Thta'a the other thing about linseed paint? Can you get the range of colour? Colour is more important than anything, it needs to be rich, beautifully pigmented. When I researched linseed paints a couple of years ago there was a dismaying lack of choice in darker shades.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Lovely street scene. Do you have a modern day comparison shot?

Not so lovely now

My house is tatty but I hope you'll agree it's got potential, unlike most of the tastelessly/cheaply modernised houses on my street.

 

[paulb33]

Looks lovely. Show them what can be done!

 

[88v8]

We are talking about a time when labour was very cheap, and when everyone had dark windows. They would have been dark on all sides, and should be now in my opinion.

Ideally, yes. Our neighbour back in Surrey, lived in his father's 1921 bungalow al his life. Loved black & white. Black frames, white casements. OK at the front, faced north. But at the back, he was repainting every couple of years. He was thorough, he used good paint, but on a sunny day, you could burn your hand on those black frames, the white was cool. The black blistered and cracked. In the end, in his late 70s, he gave in and changed the back to all-white.

Dark colours are not practical on south or west facing, unless the house is surrounded by trees as ours was and then you can get away with it downstairs, but the upstairs will still cook.

Alas, that's the way it is.

Ivor

 

[paulb33]

We are talking about a time when labour was very cheap, and when everyone had dark windows. They would have been dark on all sides, and should be now in my opinion.

Ideally, yes. Our neighbour back in Surrey, lived in his father's 1921 bungalow al his life. Loved black & white. Black frames, white casements. OK at the front, faced north. But at the back, he was repainting every couple of years. He was thorough, he used good paint, but on a sunny day, you could burn your hand on those black frames, the white was cool. The black blistered and cracked. In the end, in his late 70s, he gave in and changed the back to all-white.

Dark colours are not practical on south or west facing, unless the house is surrounded by trees as ours was and then you can get away with it downstairs, but the upstairs will still cook.

Alas, that's the way it is.

Ivor

Gosh, that puts a new perspective on it. There's evidence of brown paint on the south facing elevation. But, reading this it sounds like that was a folly. Little wonder white windows are universal, if this is the case. Back to white then? Must say, it doesn't suit the house.

 

[paulb33]

If I was going to use a brown this might be interesting

http://www.farrow-ball.com/tanner's-brown/colours//fcp-product/100255

Thta'a the other thing about linseed paint? Can you get the range of colour? Colour is more important than anything, it needs to be rich, beautifully pigmented. When I researched linseed paints a couple of years ago there was a dismaying lack of choice in darker shades.

I do know that dark brown is difficult to source in standard modern paint. I guess there's little call for it.

This is a shade lighter than I need: http://www.greenshop.co.uk/holkham-linseed-oil-paint-houghton-brown-1-litre-3862.html?osCsid=22d26a8d32fa70e27f38af8cd2e7b1b8

Anyone have any other referrals for brown traditional paint?

 

[angrybird]

Paul you are so lucky to live in Penarth, there are some fabulous houses there.Its a shame that most of them have been turned into flats.
I lived there for 2 years and have such happy memories

 

[plasticpigeon]

Little green make some strong colours such as this.

http://www.littlegreene.com/chocolate-colour

http://www.littlegreene.com/spanish-brown

http://www.littlegreene.com/mocha

The colours look much more washed out on the computer screen, so get a sample or a swatch.

 

[paulb33]

Paul you are so lucky to live in Penarth, there are some fabulous houses there.Its a shame that most of them have been turned into flats.
I lived there for 2 years and have such happy memories

Yes: we love it! The architecture was a big factor in settling here. Gives the place a rather special tone. But, so much damage was done in the 60s-90s. Weak conservation policy and the absence of experienced (sensitive) local contractors is still a major issue.

The good news is we now have a newly restored pier, which reopens this week.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-24182171
http://penarthnews.wordpress.com/2013/09/25/a-dusty-race-to-the-finish-at-penarth-pier-pavilion/

 

[paulb33]

Little green make some strong colours such as this.

http://www.littlegreene.com/chocolate-colour

http://www.littlegreene.com/spanish-brown

http://www.littlegreene.com/mocha

The colours look much more washed out on the computer screen, so get a sample or a swatch.

Excellent referral. Thank you. Looks exactly the shade needed.

I'm still nervous about using a non porous paint, for maintenance reasons. The benefits of linseed oil on new wood frames seem so compelling. Found this interesting site and have dropped them a line. http://www.linseedpaintcompany.co.uk/index.html

Thanks for your support! I'll crack this one day.... A life's work! ;-)

 

[agbagb]

I'm using paint from the linseed paint company at the moment. He mixed up a duck egg blue for us, a very good match to the sample we sent him. I've found the paint is a lot more gloss then holkam paint but does seem to be slightly less dense in pigment. I've got used to it now but started off applying it a bit too thick.

 

[paulb33]

I'm using paint from the linseed paint company at the moment. He mixed up a duck egg blue for us, a very good match to the sample we sent him. I've found the paint is a lot more gloss then holkam paint but does seem to be slightly less dense in pigment. I've got used to it now but started off applying it a bit too thick.

Interesting. I visualised a satin finish in my mind. The current plastic paint has prejudiced me against gloss. Love to see some pictures..

 

[agbagb]

You're in luck I took a few the other week. I've posted more here

This gives a good idea of the gloss finish from "Linseed Paint Company", up at the Whitby Cottage on a heavily restored (1930's?) window.

And a close up

Compared to "Holkham now called "Linseed Paint and Wax Company"

The density of paint might not be such a problem on dark colours, I think carbon and iron oxide pigments are more opaque than the zinc oxide used as a base for the light colours.

 

[88v8]

I visualised a satin finish in my mind. The current plastic paint has prejudiced me against gloss.

Yes, satin is nice, reminiscent of the powdery weathered look of old lead gloss.
But gloss is more durable than satin or eggshell and, to me, on the exterior durability trumps all.
After 38 years of house ownership, the novelty of repainting has worn off, so I save eggshelly finishes for indoors.

Ivor

 

[paulb33]

I visualised a satin finish in my mind. The current plastic paint has prejudiced me against gloss.

Yes, satin is nice, reminiscent of the powdery weathered look of old lead gloss.
Ivor

Lead it is then. :wink:

 

[JoceAndChris]

No!!! I'm sorry but I can't believe lead really looks a lot better after 15 yrs than anything else. Show me evidence, proof. There's a good reason we can't buy it.

Lead is horrible, stripping my lead painted windows here gave me chronic tummy upsetness and headaches. You've only got one set of lungs and bloodstream.

Why not ring the specialist paint people - Womersley's or Rose of Jericho, and have a detailed chat - they're both great at advising over the phone. You might find that yearly applying a layer of wax or linseed oil over the top of your eggshell gave it some protection. There are good long handled, angled, brushes, that are sold as behind radiator brushes, but I think a fair bit could be reached by leaning out of the window. For very out of reach places I strap the brush to a telescopic pole.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Lead it is then. :wink:

Ha Ha, you're not trying hard enough! If you really want painters colic, you should track down some nice arsenic paint, especially for use in the kitchen and bathroom!!!!

Joce, headaches and tummy upset from stripping paint, I hope it was the smelly fumes and not lead poisoning, I have had the same fear in my place, but I've been careful about containment, putting down disposable dust sheets, keeping the heat gun on a lowish setting and collecting as much as possible in plastic bags as soon as soon as it comes off the wall, ie, it falls off the wall into the bag, and also never sanding it. I'm more concerned about poisoning from my neighbours who burned all their stuff off with heat guns, and their place was like a pea souper inside. Didn't seem to bother them though!!!!

 

[JoceAndChris]

Wise to be careful PP; I wasn't careful enough. I think you need proper dust masks not the flimsy things I bought.

This was a few years ago now and as I always felt better once the work was finished and all the clearing up done I didn't bother to have the blood test. But I don't strip the paint any more.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Hopefully no harm done. I didn't use to care about this stuff, but I realise how important it is these days, especially since doing up a house means that it is more than just once in a while. I've got a half face mask with removable filters which filter dust and organic vapour (painters filters meant for cellulose spray painting I think) there is come code like a2 p3 I think. Doesn't filter lead vapour but if it's not hot enough I think there shouldn't be any. What else can be done!!!!

 

[paulb33]

Does anyone know if Holkham is still in business? Can't find their paints....