When to bring in the experts-an idiots guide?

[charlie-ia]

have been reading about part p certifications (which Id never heard of till i came here). i get where he's coming from.
also read someones thread about you can do it yourself, but by the time youve got the competant person to check the whole house to sign you off, you may as well have paid them to do the work in the first place

I also helped my dad to replace his heating system, so i've tried a bit of plumbing, and know how dangerous gas can be (see grahams top tips!), and know that the gasboard have to finish the job for you.

i never thought of helping the sparkie with the floorboards! the more people who pipe up with their two penneth worth the better as far as im concerned!

Oh yes. I am a Beginner. no mistake there, though I have always enjoyed watching people work.:wink:

 

[Gervase]

Nice looking place - looks just like a house I spent a month or so on last autumn.
As for the technical bits, what it boils down to in essence is how honest can you be with yourself? Only you will know if you can read up on the requirements of domestic wiring and have the necessary common sense to satisfy Part P - but if you can, and know you can, there's nothing to stop you doing it yourself and then paying the BCO £140 to sign off the work.
Like plumbing, it isn't rocket science. the ability to think logically and visualise in three dimensions rather than just as a flat plan (and to work in a tidy fashion) is probably the most important asset.
However, gas is one thing I would always - but always - leave to an expert. If water or electricity leaks, you generally find out quickly. If gas leaks, often the first you know is when your eardrums meet in the middle of your head.
One thing is guaranteed - you will surprise yourself mightily, and your friends and family will think you've become a terrible bore! :wink:

 

[Jill]

did you know that once you've had your plans passed you've only got 3 years to complete the work or the plans have to be resubmitted.

Are you sure? Things may obviously have changed, but ten years ago that wasn't the case. At that time, there was a deadline by which you had to start the work, but once you had started and had an official council inspection to prove you had started (and this only needed to be an inspection of a test hole to prove how deep the foundations needed to be (which you could then fill in again after the inspection!)) the permission did not expire.

My understanding is the same as Jill's - once work has started, there is no deadline for completion, but if the work is not started then permission may lapse and need re-submission.

Can anyone else confirm, deny or correct this?

We had a building regs guy visit us the other week and my partner got the impression from him that it was 3 years from plans being passed to work being completed. If this is wrong then please let us know as he may have misunderstood. Thanks

 

[Nemesis]

This might shed some light:

http://www.planning-applications.co.uk/decisions1.htm

 

[NT]

news:uk.d-i-y regularly helps inexperienced people with wiring decisions & design, so the resource is there ready and waiting. Like anything, one needs to read and ask questions first, but wiring isnt rocket science.

The wiki rewiring tips page is a good resource too, though coming at the subject from an entirely different angle. The lighting articles might be of some interest too.

Do you have historic wiring in place? If so, and the switches look nice, its not difficult to reuse them on the new system by interposing a safe Lv circuit between the 2 - its really not difficult.

Pretty house btw!

Even if you do your own wiring and make a couple of mistakes, getting those rectified is a lot cheaper than getting a pro to do a full rewire.


NT

 

[BMcD]

charlie-ia wrote:

Oh yes. I am a Beginner. no mistake there, though I have always enjoyed watching people work.

Perhaps you could get a professional in to do one or two jobs you're not sure about though you feel you could have a go and use them as a one on one tutor. Any craftsman who is proud of their trade would be more than happy to pass on their knowledge. You get a couple of jobs done and learn a few tips and the craftsman gets paid for the work and probably any future work your not inclined to do

 

[Pford75]

Quote:
on gas/oil....it's the law.


wrong again. One has to be competent to do the job. Then you can do all the work for yourself that you want.


NT

I'd always understood that only CORGI registered contractors were legally allowed to connect a gas boiler or appliance and that there was a similar organisation for the connection of oil tanks? Is this not correct?

Well....given your stated lack of knowledge & experience in this area....


Que?

I was referring to the OP's stated lack of experience...not yours ;-)

The tip re: lifting of floorboards is as much about conserving lovely boards, as saving money.....my experience is that contractors can either bruise the edges of the boards when lifting, or simply break them!

Our guiding principle has been what it costs for someone to do the work to the same standard as ourselves - we have found reliable labour for £60/day - now whilst they are not experienced builders, they can deal with much of the grunt work....which we also do....but sometimes it's helpful to have someone do this...and focus yourself on the more challenging jobs or the ones where you absolutely must have it done your way - My wife will not allow anyone else to paint doors.....and insists on doing them all herself.

 

[glayzell]

not sure where this fits in, but i am learning so much about historice building techniques, how to do things etc. For example, if someone said to me 1 year ago, 'replace the ground floor timber structure of that georgian house on your own with the help of your dad who has no more of a clue than you',

i would probably have said, 'that could be tricky'.

now, one year ona and having done it myself i am proud of my achievements and for the next 10 year i will tell everyone who enter the house about the day when you could see straight through the wall...

it is fantastic for your esteem when you do things you didnt think you were capable of, my dad think i have a desk/people job 'cos i could not do manual work...ha!

 

[NT]

it is fantastic for your esteem when you do things you didnt think you were capable of, my dad think i have a desk/people job 'cos i could not do manual work...ha!

yes, quite. Its also very practical, having wired the house once the OP'll be well clued for life. Its also good for the bank balance, unless you've other things to do, which is all too often the case.


NT

 

[charlie-ia]

please define "structural" for me. i dont want to take anything for granted!

is it possible to assess for ourselves the damage the worms have done?
i read about pushing your penknife into the wood, is this all you need to do?(i doubt it!).
could we asses each timber individually, and then if a certain % are ruined decide to replace the whole lot, or would we remove each timber individually and work our way along fixing as we go?
does wood hardner add strength, or just stop irriplaceable(but not load bearing) wood crumbling away?
can we asses non load bearing (including floorboards)? does loadbearing timber count as structural?

thanks for all help so far. heres another picture as a reward for all your hard work

please promise no-one amongst you will gazump us!

 

[NT]

on gas/oil....it's the law.

wrong again. One has to be competent to do the job. Then you can do all the work for yourself that you want.

I'd always understood that only CORGI registered contractors were legally allowed to connect a gas boiler or appliance and that there was a similar organisation for the connection of oil tanks? Is this not correct?

AIUI one has to be a monopoly member to do gas work professionally. To do it for oneself, no qualification of any kind is needed. But as has been said, one must be competent. This can be achieved most simply by taking instruction and following instructions.

Also theres a difference between gas plumbing and commissionsing....


NT

 

[Penners]

please define "structural" for me. i dont want to take anything for granted! does loadbearing timber count as structural?

The term "structural" is generally used to denote any structure (eg:walls) upon which other parts of the building depend.

For example, some partition walls (ie: walls that separate the interior of the building into rooms) are not structural. Nothing else in the building leans or rests on them, and they can be removed without affecting the integrity of the building.

Some partition walls are, however, structural. Remove them, and you risk something else (perhaps a wall upstairs) coming crashing down.

In most cases, a bit of ferreting around and a good dose of common sense will tell you what is or is not structural. Look carefully at how the structure in question relates to the rest of the building, and you'll soon be able to tell.

And yes, in the above terms, loadbearing timber would be structural.

 

[charlie-ia]

so that includes the upstairs floor right?

 

[Penners]

Well, how do you mean?

Lifting floorboards is not normally a problem, in terms of the structure. The flooring joists might or might not be structural - it depends on whether any partition walls, etc. are resting on them.

 

[charlie-ia]

thats the kind of thing i was thinking. floorboards ok; joists need carefull looking at.

Ive still got images of frank's house stuck in my brain i'm afraid. was thinking if we took away the wormy floor, the walls would instantly bow/blow out! Remember that norman wisdom film?

our house is 2up,2down,box shape with the walls on top of each other. the diagram in my book (carpentry) just shows the joists resting on wallplates, so i guess its pretty simple to work out what not to touch.

Bet you lot will be glad when i can get in there and actually have a proper look at what im talking about! sorry for asking so many vague questions, you are really helping. At least im beginning to get an idea of the sort of things I need to know.

 

[Penners]

Replacing joists between two walls shouldn't be a problem, but if you're ever worried about any kind of job like that, remember that you can always replace them one at a time. You don't have to remove the lot, before installing the new.

Anyway, I shouldn't be in too much of a rush to condemn any timber, just because of worm holes. You don't know how extensive the worm damage is, or whether the infestation is still active.

And if you want to do right by a period building, removing original structure will be very much a last resort.

 

[charlie-ia]

Replacing joists between two walls shouldn't be a problem, but if you're ever worried about any kind of job like that, remember that you can always replace them one at a time. You don't have to remove the lot, before installing the new..

Thats good news, thanks. how i envisaged doing it.

Anyway, I shouldn't be in too much of a rush to condemn any timber, just because of worm holes. You don't know how extensive the worm damage is.

how do we survey this? can we asses it ourselves, or is this an expert job? does it all rely on percent of firm wood remaining?

or whether the infestation is still active..

a gentle mist of powdered sawdust snowing down from above? water running on the walls? No complete windows? Empty for 15years?

Im working on the principle that the place is heaving with the little beasties.

and the surveyor said it was active, in writing.

And if you want to do right by a period building, removing original structure will be very much a last resort.

throughout life my guiding principle is do as little as possible.

 

[NT]

Anyway, I shouldn't be in too much of a rush to condemn any timber, just because of worm holes. You don't know how extensive the worm damage is.

how do we survey this? can we asses it ourselves, or is this an expert job? does it all rely on percent of firm wood remaining?

Yes. And to a lesser extent the size of the timbers. Eg borderline timber sizes could not take heavy eating and still do the job, whereas overspeceed wood could lose a high percentange of its content and still do the job.

With floor joists it should be possible to load test them.

or whether the infestation is still active..

a gentle mist of powdered sawdust snowing down from above? water running on the walls? No complete windows? Empty for 15years?

Im working on the principle that the place is heaving with the little beasties. [/quote]

Sounds like it.

throughout life my guiding principle is do as little as possible.

Lol


NT

 

[Penners]

how do we survey this?

To check the integrity of your timbers, get yourself a penknife or screwdriver and dig into wormy-looking beams. If the tool finds nothing but spongey stuff, you've got a problem beam.

But if it goes in a little way and then hits hard stuff, the timber may be OK. You then have to do some more digging and try to ascertain how much good timber the beam still contains.

To check whether your infestation is still active, here are a couple of methods.

1. Look for little piles of wood-dust (called "frass") on the floor underneath heavily infested wood.

2. Gum some tissue paper around wormy beams. Do it quickly now and you could still catch this year's flying season. In Spring the beetles burrow out of the wood and fly away - thereby leaving holes in your tissue paper.

Dust in the air may not be frass - it could just be dust. However, if the property is very damp, then a live infestation is more likely. Woodworm prefers damp timber.

If you want to read up on the little beggars, Google "woodworm", "common furniture beetle" or "anobium punctatum".

 

[charlie-ia]

But if it goes in a little way and then hits hard stuff, the timber may be OK. You then have to do some more digging and try to ascertain how much good timber the beam still contains.

can you me teach this over the internet, or am i really asking too much this time?
does this relate back to the bit about the worms not liking to eat heartwood ?

whereas overspeceed wood could lose a high percentange of its content and still do the job.

My new book (longman carpentry 1966)has a really good chart on beam sizes for different size rooms. (keen on the "new asbestos products" you can get too!) so thats at least a starting point

With floor joists it should be possible to load test them.

by the amount of bending over a given length for a given weight?