Walls too thick for wireless internet!

[Baron de Gynes]

Can domestic premises have 3-phase power distributed throughout these days?

Well as for domestic, I don't know, but we're an old farmhouse and the electrics from here used to run a big chunk of 400v farm machinery complete with pulleys belts and wheels. So I'm told.

The barn they ran in was moved (yes, moved!) and converted in the 80's (strikes fear in the heart, doesn't it?) so the only evidence of their being any significant industrial-spec machinery is the 3-phase electricity and folklore.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

The problem with a cantenna is interference. You keep getting a deep French voice cutting into your network, saying things like, "When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea."

Groan! :roll: :roll: :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Dumb question alert.

I have three old supply cables entering the house from the telegraph poles (so old they eppar to have metal insulation?!).

Would this indicate three-phase supply (unlikely) or is that normal?

The board appears to be a normal 100a main fuse and two meters (possibly E7 at one time, but more recently the new extension has a separate meter).

 

[Flyfisher]

Can domestic premises have 3-phase power distributed throughout these days?

Well as for domestic, I don't know, but we're an old farmhouse and the electrics from here used to run a big chunk of 400v farm machinery complete with pulleys belts and wheels. So I'm told.

The barn they ran in was moved (yes, moved!) and converted in the 80's (strikes fear in the heart, doesn't it?) so the only evidence of their being any significant industrial-spec machinery is the 3-phase electricity and folklore.

That makes perfect sense to me and sounds very similar to our outbuildings (before the 3-phase was disconnected). But in such installations I'd expect all the 3-phases to be contained within the machinery itself, with any standard 13A sockets all running from the same phase. Similarly, I'd expect the house to have only been connected to a single phase.

A commercial electrical system installer once explained the difference between single and 3-phase supplies in the following basic (and typically semi-cavalier way) way; he said that you'd be pretty unlucky to be killed by a single-phase shock (i.e. 240V) but you'd be pretty lucky to survive a 3-phase shock (i.e. 415V). I've never been tempted to fully test this assertion, though I can personally confirm that a 240V shock need not be fatal. :shock:

 

[Flyfisher]

Dumb question alert.

I have three old supply cables entering the house from the telegraph poles (so old they eppar to have metal insulation?!).

Would this indicate three-phase supply (unlikely) or is that normal?

The board appears to be a normal 100a main fuse and two meters (possibly E7 at one time, but more recently the new extension has a separate meter).

Not a dumb question, at least not dumb enough for me to be able to answer fully. My understanding is that the three cables on the telegraph poles are indicative of three phases. It's common for wires between poles to be uninsulated but I'd be surprised if the final link to the house is uninsulated. If you only have a single supply fuse near your meter then I'd guess you have a single-phase supply.

This is based on my own experience at our house. We had two telegraph poles; an underground cable emerged and went up the first pole, three bare wires were strung between the two poles and two insulated cables were strung from the second pole to two corners of the house. Each insulated cable went to separate meters because the house had a self-contained annexe.

When discussing having the poles removed and the entire supply being laid underground it transpired that each insulated overhead cable to the house was carrying a different phase. This, apparently, is quite normal when separate, self-contained dwellings are being supplied as it helps to spread the load on the distribution cabling. Since we were in the process of integrating the annexe into the main house (keeping it as an annexe, but not completely separated from the main house) we were advised that we should convert the domestic cabling to be all on the same phase, removing one of the supply meters in the process.

We had the poles removed, all supply cables are now underground and we are now on a single-phase and a single meter. So visually and electrically much neater all around.

I think I've previously described the subsequent fun and games when meter readers insisted we had two meters to read and a cable inspection team turned up to do a maintenance check of the overhead cables! :lol:

 

[MdB]

My understanding is that the three cables on the telegraph poles are indicative of three phases.

It can be two phases and earth. It depends on how they do it.

 

[Feltwell]

a cable inspection team turned up to do a maintenance check of the overhead cables! :lol:

I presume they concluded that you had a severe cable corrosion problem.

 

[Lime]

Dumb question alert.

I have three old supply cables entering the house from the telegraph poles (so old they eppar to have metal insulation?!).

Would this indicate three-phase supply (unlikely) or is that normal?

The board appears to be a normal 100a main fuse and two meters (possibly E7 at one time, but more recently the new extension has a separate meter).

If you had a 3 phase supply I'd expect four cables feeding into the house from the overhead supply.
More probably a two phase supply with shared neutral to spread the load (domestic and E10 or E7) on the overhead supply lines and pole transformer.

 

[Penners]

a cable inspection team turned up to do a maintenance check of the overhead cables! :lol:

I presume they concluded that you had a severe cable corrosion problem.

Or yet another case of metal theft.

 

[Flyfisher]

The overhead span was not too long so probably not a target for theft, though these days who can tell? :evil:

I'm sure EDF was quite pleased that the supply was finally underground. The cables ran close to some trees and high winds had caused damage over many years, which had led to the cables having many splice/crimp repairs. The reason that EDF were happy to bury the cables in the first place was that a previous inspection team had decided that the cables should really be replaced because of the number of joints. Given that they were going to do this work anyway, they were quite happy to lay an underground cable instead, as long as I dug the trench, so win-win really.

The inspection team hasn't been back for a couple of years now so I assume they've finally updated their database.

 

[Penners]

The cables ran close to some trees and high winds had caused damage over many years

Talking of this, I wonder whether anyone can please give me some advice. The telephone cable from the nearest pole to our house passes through a tree on a neighbour's land. The tree has grown a fair bit since we moved in, 2.5 years ago, and I'm starting to be concerned that, in a high wind, its thrashing about might break the telephone cable.

If that were to happen, who would the repair cost fall on? BT, me or the neighbour? Does anyone know?

 

[Feltwell]

No, but our telephone cable runs straight through a large birch tree in my front garden and it's survived unscathed for what I presume is many years despite being bashed about pretty hard by the tree during storms. The cable seems to have a bit of stretch in it, but I guess mostly it just takes up the slack in the cable when it gets pushed about by the tree.

I had BT out not long ago for a fault which involved them going up the outside of the house to run some tests, and the engineer didn't say anything, despite the tree being right next to him.

 

[Penners]

That's slightly reassuring, Feltwell, thanks. But I imagine that, after an indeterminate period of thrashing about, the copper in the cable must become work-hardened and liable to break.

 

[Flyfisher]

I don't see why you would have to pay for any repairs to a cable that doesn't belong to you caused by a tree that's not on your land.

The cables are pretty tough though. In a previous house our telephone cable passed through a tree in our front garden. The tree died and slowly started to lean, gradually tightening the telephone wire. I couldn't easily get above the wire to cut the offending branch (without a cherry picker) and there was the added complication that our neighbour's telephone wire also passed through the tree; it wasn't being affected by the leaning tree but if I had cut the branch affecting our wire then it would have fallen on the neighbour's wire. A tricky situation, so I did what any normal chap would have done and just ignored it, expecting to move house before it became a problem!

After quite a while, we lost our broadband service, though the telephone service was fine. I called BT and they came out to investigate after informing me that they would charge £180 if the problem was mine. I was expecting a bill, but to my surprise it turned out that corroded external connections were the problem and the BT chap fixed it at no cost, but he pointed out the tension on the cable caused by our tree and said that any damage caused by the our tree would be chargeable.

So I took the plunge and used a couple of scaffold towers and a ladder. One tower to allow me to get above the telephone cable and the other tower to allow me to build a ladder bridge above my neighbour's cable to prevent it being broken when I felled the offending branches. It was a bit hairy but it worked well enough that no damage was done. Once I had cut all the branches above the telephone cables it was an easy job to fell the remainder of the tree.

All of which is a long-winded way of saying that external telephone cables can take a lot of punishment without breaking, so I wouldn't be too concerned as long as there is some slack in them.

Before . . .


After (more or less) . . .

 

[Penners]

I did what any normal chap would have done and just ignored it

That's been my considered policy up to now, FF, and I'm heartened to know that it can regarded as "normal"!

But I think, like you, I shall have to do something about this tree before too long.

Time to start an assessment, I feel. :wink:

 

[LadyArowana]

It's not the trees you have to worry about it's the squirrels. They like to ransom telephone service in exchange for food but people rarely understand the tiny little notes scratched on leaves, so they end up with chewed cables.

 

[Feltwell]

Time to start an assessment, I feel. :wink:

There is a Kit-Kat in mortal danger somewhere in Suffolk as I type........

 

[Penners]

Too late, Feltwell. It's a late Kit-Kat.

 

[AMc]

Late to the party...
I have 3 phase fitted in 2009 - to power heat pumps. I have 2 consumer units on different phases and the heat pumps and immersion heater powered by the lot. I was told not to expect powerline adapters to work across the two consumer units by an acquaintance in Sweden where heat pumps are common and so is 3 domestic 3 phase.

With WiFi, combined powerline WiFi extenders sounds like a good idea in the OP position. Videos here explain it quite well. http://www.solwise.co.uk/net-powerline-av-index.htm

It's worth looking at the location of the main router as it may be easier to move it to a more central location with a phone extension though this might have a small impact on ADSL speed I wouldn't be concerned.

It's worth considering that if you have the WiFi router and the WiFi client (e.g. laptop) on opposite sides of a thick wall but in line so the signal goes through the wall at 90 degrees it will be substantially stronger than if they are a few feet apart along the wall - where the signal is forced to go through several feet of wall material at an angle. This can make a huge difference - we have a central thick brick spine in the house with two massive chimney stacks and getting the router into a central point where the "shadow" of the wall isn't in line makes a big difference.
The signal extends in a donut shape from the aerial so turning the router on it's side or rotating it may change the signal strength where you want it. Moving it up or down to get it on a horizontal plane with the client will also help.

You can also make a marginal improvement in signal if you wrap cardboard in kitchen foil and place it between the router and an area where you don't need the signal e.g. an external wall - sounds ridiculous but I have tried it and it works.

You can also deal with weaker signals by adding external aerials to WiFi routers e.g. http://www.solwise.co.uk/wireless-indoorantenna-24.htm check with them for the correct antenna.

 

[Penners]

It's worth considering that if you have the WiFi router and the WiFi client (e.g. laptop) on opposite sides of a thick wall but in line so the signal goes through the wall at 90 degrees it will be substantially stronger than if they are a few feet apart along the wall - where the signal is forced to go through several feet of wall material at an angle.

I think dear old Pythagoras would agree with you there. The square on the hypotenuse and all that... :?