Tree dispute - roots under our house

[MdB]

 

[Stephen]

There will be many factors that determine whether a tree is likely to cause damage to a house. As others have said there are many xamples of large trees growing besides buildings with no adverse impact, but in other instances relatviely small shrubs can cause structural movement (I have dealt with a subsidence case caused by a rose bush).

There is no way anyone on this forum can give a conclusive answer to your dilemma. The problem requires inspection on site and proper assessment. A tree surgeon's report would be useful and I also suggest a report from a local engineer who knows the area and may have dealt with structural problems in the vicinity and can therefore advise on likely risk based on local knowledge. If the neighbour is friendly see if they will share the costs.

In certain circumstances removing a tree can cause more harm than good - you could find yourself with a heave problem.

Is the tree damaging the building? If the answer is no then you really do not have any realistic grounds (legally - subject to a lawyer advising) for asking for the tree to be removed. I am not a lawyer but I suspect that if this were before a Court the Court would not order the removal of the tree if there was no demonstrable damage being caused.

If the neighbour has been prepared to deal with the relatively minor problem of the path and encroaching roots every 10-12 years or so that does not suggest a major risk to me. If the neighbour (or their successor) is prepared to simply deal with the damage to the path, etc, as and when it occurs I doubt if a Court would order anything else (but lawyers here can perhaps advise in more detail).

The best solutiuon is to reach an agreement with the neighbour as to what to do. However, this is best dealt with once you have more information on the real (rather than assumed) risk that the tree poses. I would be reluctant to remove any tree even near a building if there is no evidence of damage and the risk of a problem in the foreseeable future is minimal or non-existant.

Stephen

 

[Nigel Watts]

You left out the next bit which if my memory serves me correctly goes:

"I put on women's clothing and have buttered scones for tea"

Excessively macho types often having something to hide I rather suspect.

 

[yamin]

Is the tree damaging the building? If the answer is no then you really do not have any realistic grounds (legally - subject to a lawyer advising) for asking for the tree to be removed. I am not a lawyer but I suspect that if this were before a Court the Court would not order the removal of the tree if there was no demonstrable damage being caused.

If the neighbour has been prepared to deal with the relatively minor problem of the path and encroaching roots every 10-12 years or so that does not suggest a major risk to me. If the neighbour (or their successor) is prepared to simply deal with the damage to the path, etc, as and when it occurs I doubt if a Court would order anything else (but lawyers here can perhaps advise in more detail).



Stephen

Thanks Stephen. Have today spoken with a tree surgeon, who has told me that because the tree is right up against neighbours house, it can't push its roots that way because of foundations, which also stretch to each side. Roots coming under our yard are therefore pretty seriously needed for stabilising the tree, so if they are removed then he says the tree will become unstable. This makes it a safety concern for us as the tree would fall straight over into our yard. Root system would be removed to within 2 feet of a 20 ft tree!


Love the lumberjack song!

 

[Gareth Hughes]

You left out the next bit which if my memory serves me correctly goes:

"I put on women's clothing and have buttered scones for tea"

Excessively macho types often having something to hide I rather suspect.

"On Wednesdays I go shopping, and have buttered scones for tea"

"I cut down trees, I skip and jump
I like to press wild flowers
I put on women's clothing
And hang around in bars

I cut down trees, I wear high heels
Suspendies and a bra
I wish I'd been a girly
Just like my dear papa"

 

[Flyfisher]

This may or not be useful but this page shows the application of geosynthetic membranes to protect walls and drains from tree roots (scroll down to "Ground Engineering"). If you have to dig the ground up anyway it might be possible to use such a membrane to keep new roots away from your house. Just a thought - I have no experience of such things at all.

 

[Flyfisher]

Further to Gareth's post, spot Tom Hanks in this rendition: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZP_7dAPFFI

 

[Nigel Watts]

What would we do without you Gareth! You are quite right - it's all come back now.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Harrumph to your transvestite lumberjacks - you won't put us girls off I say!

Literature abounds with hunky woodmen:

"At Gerald's stroke the jay awoke;
Till noon hack followed hack,
Before the nearest hill had time
To give its echo back;
And evening mists were in the lane
Ere Gerald's arm grew slack. "

and what about John Clare's lovely tree surgeons?

http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/33729/

Abi - hope you get this pear tree sorted out!

 

[Nigel Watts]

And didn't EM Forster's eponymous hero run off with the woodcutter in Maurice?

 

[JoceAndChris]

Hmmm, you might have a point then.

Stick with your nurse Abi these tree surgeons aren't all they're cracked up to be!

 

[Ushy M]

But remember the advice! If there's to be no going out with a cup of tea for fear of distracting him, you certainly can't float around the garden in your scanties calling 'hey big boy, what about the workers?!' - clearly a safety issue!!!! :lol: :lol:

Yup - one of my work colleagues who routinely has to spend days at a time doing jobs such as working alone on a wet riverbank cutting back vegetation offered this sage advice "Always remember - there's no such thing as a trivial chainsaw accident" :shock:

On the specific tree issue, we have an enormous eucalyptus tree yards from our house (I want rid of it - Mr M likes it for some reason) - the tree conservation officer observed "Blimey - I'm surprised you haven't got major cracking!" In fact there's none, but I'm guessing that's because we haven't got any foundations....

 

[Ushy M]

However, having just re-read Stephen's post more carefully, we might just leave it. On the plus side, we cut it back regularly (though this just seems to encourage it) and the resulting logs burn lovely.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Yup - one of my work colleagues who routinely has to spend days at a time doing jobs such as working alone on a wet riverbank cutting back vegetation offered this sage advice

This poor work colleague really drew the short straw didn't he?

I also found Steven's advice very interesting - but you know, in our case it's just not feasible to get a survey and an expert opinion for every little thing, we'd be stony broke before we even started!

Sometimes, even most of the time, you just have to use common sense and hope for the best.

We felled an enormous tree - a great spindly silver birch- at the weekend - it was terrifying. If it had landed to the south it would have smashed up the workshop roof. To the north it would have squashed the chicken shed. To the west, we'd have had to drive the 4 x4 into the field below amongst all the pedestrians and dog walkers and rope it down - we nearly did that actually. But Chris spent ages weighing it all up and going out and buying more extensions for the chainsaw, cut the wedge correctly and it landed to the east with the weight caught by a large yew. It was a really fraught moment. But it had to come down, it was dead, this is a really windy spot, and if a storm had caught it I could have lost my chickens.

Maybe now it's down there will be heave and the workshop will fall in - but as long as the chooks are OK I don't care!

One down , 'bout a hundred to go!

 

[Flyfisher]

The tricky thing about felling large trees is determining how their weight is distributed, which can clearly affect how they fall. One that I felled two years ago refused to fall in the direction of the wedge and came down more or less at 90 degrees to the wedge. Fortunately, I was half prepared for it to misbehave and was fortunate that it didn't really matter where it fell, but it was a salutary lesson and I now tend to use a rope and a 'chain-puller' to put some strain on the tree in the direction I want it to fall.

It can be quite surprising how big a tree suddenly becomes when it's lying on the ground. And how heavy even the smaller boughs can be.

 

[JoceAndChris]

"Is your "chain puller" powered by your tractor? I think your land is very different - spacious and open. It's like we live in a wood here. There's no clearance in any direction.

Know what you mean about how huge and heavy they are, especially holly!

 

[Flyfisher]

No, it's powered by me.
It's one of these: http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/chp1250-heavy-duty-power-puller

I have used it attached to the tractor, but it's very easy to pull the tractor backwards so this only really works with smallish trees (I've actually used it to pull the tractor out of a very muddy field once, but that's another story). It's rather better to use another tree as an anchor point.

You're right that we're fairly open, which means I rarely have to worry about a tree falling against another and getting stuck. That's another good reason to rope the tree you're felling, so it can be pulled down if it gets stuck, but I've never had to tackle that problem yet - thank goodness.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Oh, I see. We're jealous of your tractor! Chris has to chainsaw the trees into logs when they're fallen against other trees! I'll be glad when we've more open space.

 

[Flyfisher]

Just be careful when sawing leaning trees in case they suddenly decide to 'un-lean', especially as you trim them.

As for the tractor, I've always hankered after one since spending teenage summers on a friend's farm in Wales, so it was a bit of a 'big boys toy' originally, but it has actually turned out to be genuinely useful. Even Mrs FF agrees it was a good investment, so it must be true.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Well of course! I never question Chris' entire right to all the power tools and industrial equipment that have ever been dreamed up - nothing makes him happier. It's the one thing that really reconciles him to living in a freezing, crumbling building site and travelling over a thousand miles a week to get to work!

If chainsaws and tractors can make you boys happy bring 'em on!