Tree dispute - roots under our house

[yamin]

We seem to have a potential dispute with our neighbours.They are close by and have an old pear tree that grows up the side of their house. The roots of this tree are clearly growing under the fence and into our back yard, where they have pushed up the bricks. No dispute on this, the neighbours, who are now living elsewhere and are in negotiations to sell their house have said that this happened before, about 12 years ago, at which stage they dug up the bricks, cut back the roots, filled with sand, and levelled it all out. This house then belonged to a family member of theirs. They propose doing the same again. My concerns are
1. OK, it may last 12 years, but this situation could well arise again, at which stage we potentially have a different, as yet unknown neighbour to approach it with (we would like to stay here for many decades)
2. The neighbour says it is not clay ground so no danger re drying the ground out. I say its still dodgy having roots possibly working themselves under our house (within 2 feet of our walls at mo).
3. I feel, sad though it si, that the tree would be better, sorry, ahem, chopped down........I hate to say this of any tree, but if its a more than once threat to properties - but maybe you may have different advice.....
4. Since they are trying to sell the house, is this potential (still friendly at mo, but we clearly disagree) disagreement spomething that the new owners should be made aware of, in the legal conveyancing or whatever? Is there anyway we could make sure they are, or is that being sneaky mean? All we are concerned about is this tree's threat to our property, and I am worried that if we don't settle it now, with new owners it may be far harder to take forward. Is it the kind of thing a surveyor would pick up? Ours didn't, but then there was no lifting of bricks at that stage.....

Thanks for any advice (including sending me to ask elsewhere, if thats needed!)

 

[AMc]

I would certainly put it in writing to them that there is a problem, there is no cost to you and if they resolve it quickly they don't need to declare a dispute. If your neighbours are unwilling to act to permanently resolve this then I'm afraid I'd consider it a dispute they should declare on their sellers information sheet - if they don't they may find they're legally liable for sorting out the mess later on.

Would it be possible to dig a trench at your boundary and put a barrier in below the surface that would discourage the growth in your direction in future? It might make sense to put in a brick wall with a deeper than normal trench foundation which might solve the problem?

I would also phone a tree surgeon to see if they agree there is a threat to your house, armed with a professional opinion you'd be better placed to argue or persuade.

 

[MdB]

I'm not a lawyer but I would recommend that you don't put anything in writing. If you ever decide to sell your house, if you have put a complaint in writing, you have to declare it to any house buyer which may well put them off.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Just thinking about the possible threat of roots under buildings ...it is said that the roots spread one and a half times the crown width. How big is this tree Abi?

We have a number of giant beeches here whose roots must reach to the house, as well as numerous smaller trees. When you peer into the well you can see roots pushing through the bricks. And yet there doesn't seem to be any discernible damage to worry about, and I wonder if houses just heave and shift themselves about to accommodate these sneaking roots?

So I would worry more about the real damage and less about the potential threat.

A root prune and tree prune can do a tree a lot of good. People don't prune their fruit trees and the fruit suffers as a consequence. But what happens when you prune them is they grow really happily the following year, and if there's a way into your property they'll find it.

This means that, as you say, every ten years or so you could have lifting brickwork - it's just not fair. It sounds to me as though this tree is too big for the space it's in and it probably isn't doing their house much good either.

They would be better to chop it down and go for a smaller variety in a different spot.

I'm sure you can charm them into your way of thinking!

We had a a big tree dispute in London with a giant sycamore taller than the 5 storey building next door. It was £500 to get rid of it, which we just didn't have at that time - I feel guilty about it as it was our tree really, but we ended up accepting a small contribution from the neighbour who was just desperate to have it taken down, and also a a big chunk towards it from the Management Committee. But this pear tree should come down fairly easily.

Mother-in-law has been known to sneak out nightly with the weedkiller in the case of unwanted trees/ shrubs on the boundary. :lol:

 

[Flyfisher]

this happened before, about 12 years ago, at which stage they dug up the bricks, cut back the roots, filled with sand, and levelled it all out. This house then belonged to a family member of theirs. They propose doing the same again.

Does this imply they are willing to do this remedial work again? Given that they are planning to move it would be easy for them to ignore the problem, so it sounds like they are good neighbours and are willing to help. If this assumption is correct, would they mind if you cut the tree down? After all, they're moving anyway so would it really matter to them?

 

[Lime]

I think removing the tree may be the simplest solution.
If you are on good terms with the soon-to-depart owners have they said anything to suggest the new prospective purchasers know about the problem?
It is quite possible that their insurance and mortgage companies would have something to say about the tree as well.

On the other hand the prospective purchasers may like the tree and not want it cut down.
However there are not many insurance companies that would accept a tree so close to a property if they were told of it.
It might just be possible to make out that it is the present insurers (that have suddenly become aware of the tree because of the purchase, hem hem) that are requesting the removal.

Perhaps the most important aspect of it all is don't get any solicitors or insurance involved if you can avoid it.

 

[biffvernon]

I'd just eat the pears.

When I was little we had the biggest pear tree in the world very close to our house. They coexisted happily and I spent much of my formative years in the treehouse halfway up the tree.

 

[yamin]

Thanks for all the advice.

If your neighbours are unwilling to act to permanently resolve this then I'm afraid I'd consider it a dispute they should declare on their sellers information sheet - if they don't they may find they're legally liable for sorting out the mess later on.

This is my worry - I accept that this would also have to go on our sellers report, but we hope never to have to move (hopefully), and I do wonder if the threat (in their heads, I have no intention of verbalising it at this stage) may be enough to make them do something sensible. Trench and tree surgeon both good ideas, and I will look into the latter tomorrow.

How big is this tree Abi?

We have a number of giant beeches here whose roots must reach to the house, as well as numerous smaller trees. When you peer into the well you can see roots pushing through the bricks. And yet there doesn't seem to be any discernible damage to worry about, and I wonder if houses just heave and shift themselves about to accommodate these sneaking roots?

The crown is about 8 feet square I guess. Its almost espaliered against the wall of their house (personally wouldn't buy without it being dealt with!). I think you could be right regarding the house, but their is a newer conservatory (20 years old, not esp nice but useful room) and the roots last had to be removed because they interfered with the building of that, so think its possible it could do damage there.

Not at all keen to end up in a big dispute - quite unpleasant as you found yourself.

Does this imply they are willing to do this remedial work again? Given that they are planning to move it would be easy for them to ignore the problem, so it sounds like they are good neighbours and are willing to help. If this assumption is correct, would they mind if you cut the tree down? After all, they're moving anyway so would it really matter to them?

Correct. This is what they have suggested. I am slightly less convinced its good will, in that they want to deal with it before they sell, and avoid a big cost if there is any deeper damage. Apparently, 'Mrs' won't agree to it being chopped down as it is of sentimental value! I know I know, she's moved out!! But won't hear of it, but apparently 'if new owners want to chop it down thats up to them'! We can't afford to have the tree cut down ourselves. But yes, if doing the works they suggest is enough, then it could all stay fairly amicable. Just not sure what happens in 10 years when it happens again. Will new neighbours be willling to do the same?

When I was little we had the biggest pear tree in the world very close to our house. They coexisted happily and I spent much of my formative years in the treehouse halfway up the tree.

Nice idea, but just worried about our foundations! Also, our bricks lifted so much we're tripping over them, and drainage all goes through there too.........Pears are quite nice, though the dog has come close to a nasty knock on the head whilst passing under it - they're huge and heavy!!

If you are on good terms with the soon-to-depart owners have they said anything to suggest the new prospective purchasers know about the problem?

They have said nothing, my feeling is they won't have said anything to them. I feel a real heel if I mention it, but feel this may be only course.......

Thank you everyone, lots of food for thought, but definitely an expert opinion needed, and avoidance of dispute unless forced.....

 

[Nigel Watts]

I had a giant Eucalyptus tree about ten yards from the house and this has definitely casued subsidence in my rear extension. We are on clay. A soil sample was taken close to the foundations and roots laboratory tested and proved to be from that tree. It came out, with the Tree Officer's bleesing, in about May. Since then we have been experiencing heave in the extension, which is now back to the level is was before, but about half a centimetre further away from the house than it was before.

Eucalyptus has a repuatation for this kind of thing, but pears are more benign I think. Our neigbour has a pear tree much closer to our house than our Eucalyptus used to be and it has given us no problems whatever

 

[yamin]

Eucalyptus has a repuatation for this kind of thing, but pears are more benign I think. Our neigbour has a pear tree much closer to our house than our Eucalyptus used to be and it has given us no problems whatever

I remember reading about this trouble you had - is your extension still shifting?

Anyway, would be perfectly happy to accept no damage to our property so long as properly checked, however there is no doubt its lifting the bricks that form the floor of our back yard, so that needs sorting, and the wallof the conservatory is 18 inches away....... :?

 

[MdB]

The crown is about 8 feet square I guess.

We can't afford to have the tree cut down ourselves.

Our neighbours have just had their 6m square (ish) tree cut down and cleared for £200.
I would have thought an 8 ft tree would have been a DIY job but then I'm happy clambering around in them.

 

[yamin]

The crown is about 8 feet square I guess.

We can't afford to have the tree cut down ourselves.

Our neighbours have just had their 6m square (ish) tree cut down and cleared for £200.
I would have thought an 8 ft tree would have been a DIY job but then I'm happy clambering around in them.

I agree but wouldn't let my husband loose with a chainsaw - his strengths lie in the intensive care of patients, I don't want to risk him putting himself there! And could poss get it done for £150, but may as well be £1000 as far as we are concerned, just not doable......

 

[MdB]

Buy him a sharp bow saw and tell him to build some muscles ;-)

 

[yamin]

Buy him a sharp bow saw and tell him to build some muscles ;-)

My much beloved could lift a ventilator in each hand thank you very much! :wink: But alas, still wouldn't trust him with a saw and ladder combined. I worried enough about hedge trimming, but then I'm a wimp!

 

[JoceAndChris]

Aw, I think you're right to be so protective...Chris terrifies the life out of me with his chainsaw antics high up in trees, and we've been regaled with tales of chainsaw massacres in Power Tool shops from here to Horncastle! On one particularly memorable occasion I was taken to one side by a huge and heavily scarred chainsaw salesman and told that I must never, ever ever speak to my husband or take him so much as a cup of tea when he was using the chainsaw or I could well find I was speaking to a severed head... Chris is getting chainsaw trousers for Christmas, I hope they come with a guarantee that it's impossible to chop your leg off!

But really your neighbours should pay for this to be done by a tree surgeon - surely it's a quicker and cheaper job to remove the tree than deal with lifting brickwork and underground root removal?

 

[TimM]

In this day and age its quite likely that the new purchasers' mortgage company will ask for a survey of the tree - ours asked for lots and lots of additional (and pointless) reports that they wouldn't have bothered with 5 years ago. It's also possible that the new neighbours will want to take it out for the same reasons you do - most people seem terrified of damage tree roots will do. And yet, I seem to remember a thread or two on here declaring in years gone by that trees and houses can co-exist quite happily...

 

[JoceAndChris]

I had a lot of problems last year with mortgages, insurance companies and trees. In the end I found an insurance company that didn't ask no questions and didn't get no lies. We're probably covered for sod all though!

This beech has been getting very intimate with the woodshed over the last hundred years, the structure's still fine inside, I do declare the beech is holding it up!

 

[yamin]

Wow, what a great pic Joce! Gorgeous colours! But thats beside the point! Yes, really would be easier to chop it down - I hope the new owners mortgage company would ask for survey of it, but you never know do you, and you hear many stories of things surveyors should have picked up on and didn't. Maybe it is just a case of accepting the remedial work for now in the knowledge that any future damage will have be sorted by new owners whether they like it or not, and its not my worry to try and prevent that happening to them........seems a bit of a mean problem to hand on to them from the current owners....

By the way, I like a man in chainsaw trousers.....it must be the whole tree surgeon, harness thing going on.......

 

[JoceAndChris]

:lol: There's no finer sight!

 

[yamin]

But remember the advice! If there's to be no going out with a cup of tea for fear of distracting him, you certainly can't float around the garden in your scanties calling 'hey big boy, what about the workers?!' - clearly a safety issue!!!! :lol: :lol: