tools , budget or ex rental?

[robgil]

i need a breaker drill , i can either go second hand and buy en ex hire makita drill or buy a new budget drill for around 70 quid. i need to to break concrete floors etc.
i know makita drills are good and budget drills are usually pants but would you buy an ex rental tool?

 

[MdB]

I generally find that the decent tools are x5 to x10 more than the budget tools. If I was a pro and doing the job all day everyday then its worth getting the good stuff but I'm not so I buy budget. This enabled me to get all the tools I needed at a price I could afford. I'm now slowly replacing them with more upmarket kit as and when needed.

My £40 wall chaser was a great buy. My £20 circular saw probably wasn't but it hasn't failed yet and I still use it.

I'm on the lookout for an SDS drill at the moment. I have been borrowing my mates which he got for £30 from screwfix which was a bargin. Unfortunately he wants it back and it is now £60 new.
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/88854/Power-Tools/SDS-Drills/Titan-PDH26S6-6kg-SDS-Plus-Drill
Some people (if you read the reviews) use it for concrete breaking but its not really the right tool for the job.

 

[Flyfisher]

If I think I'm going to use a particular tool a lot then I'll spend more on it, otherwise I'll go for a cheaper option and not get upset when it breaks - well, not unless it breaks before I've finished the job I bought it for anyway.

I bought an SDS drill/breaker like the one MdB mentioned for taking out some hard brick/cement walls and breaking up some external concrete. It did a good job on the walls but I eventually wrecked it on the external concrete. But it did the main job so I wasn't too upset. If I had big slabs of concrete flooring to remove then I think I'd hire a breaker for a weekend; I don't think that £60 tool would be big enough or tough enough.

 

[Lime]

It depends on the quality of the tool and often has little to do with price.
Some cheap appliances are actually better built than brand named one particularly the modern names.

Also there are other aspects to consider as tool design makes a lot of difference to ease of use.

For instance I'm a lefthander and sometimes tools are designed almost totally for the righthander.
A black and decker jigsaw, bought 20 years ago, is a good example of what I mean.
If held in the left hand all the dust and rubbish is blown directly into your face.

Then there is the switching to consider.
some are easy (sometimes too easy) to turn on while others require a concerted effort to switch on and stay on.
If you are doing a long hard job it is made much more difficult if the way you hold and manipulate it is limited by where the switch is positioned.

Usually the older equipment is built more solidly so buying in carboots can produce real bargains.. but you have to know what you are buying and need to be able to service it before use too.


Sometimes I wonder why a tool is bought.
Is it to impress the other builders or perhaps the purchaser likes plastic boxes?

Nearly every tool I buy has a plastic box laying out all the contents in a "pretty" fashion.
The first thing I do is chuck the box.

 

[Flyfisher]

Sometimes I wonder why a tool is bought.
Is it to impress the other builders or perhaps the purchaser likes plastic boxes?

:lol: :lol: :lol:
That reminds me of a story I was once told by a ghillie about choosing the right fly to catch fish. He said that most fly patterns were really designed to catch fishermen first and fish second.

 

[middi]

To break concrete floors quickly you need a heavy duty drill breaker such as those fom hire shops hired for that purpose. To buy a drill/breaker of that quality you need to spend upwards of 6/700 pounds and preferably over a 1000 pounds.

If you only need this type of HD hammer drill to break your concrete floors it may be worth considering hiring one for a few days for about 30/40 pounds and spend about 100 pounds on good quality hammer/combi drill for future use on all other drilling and chasing wall chores.
By using a specific drill for breaking concrete floors say 100/150 mm thick it should take you about 2 hours per 12x12 ft floor.
( clearing up the mess afterwards is a different matter)

It may be false economy buying a good multipurpose drill and overworking it on concreete floors.

Good hammer/ breakers are expensive but less hassle.

 

[robgil]

this floor is only about 40-60 mil deep laid on earth with a plastic dpc in-between. i do hear what you are saying though and if it does get too heavy for the drill there is always a lump hammer. i want a light drill so that i can also use it to remove render from brick etc without being over sized and destroying the wall behind.

 

[middi]

........ forgot to add that in an old houses usually 3/4 in of concrete are laid on existing type of flooring such as bricks, paviours or flags or bare compacted soil. It would be a shame to damage any of the good hidden floor.

Normally it is reasonably easy to just break off a corner of the concrete floor wide enough to drive a short wedge or two between concrete and previous floor, with a hefty sledge hammer "WACK" a sharp blow on the concrete a foot or so in front of the wedges, craks will appear the rest is easy. Keep repeating the process.

A good sledge hammer costs about 15 pounds, knick a bit of 5/6 foot length of scaffold pole from some skip or other, flatten one end with the sledge hammer you just purchased and you just made yourself a first class lever to wedge under the concrete as soon as you have made a bit of space in the room you will have that floor cracked in half an hour

If you are not the thieving type buy a length of pole for about a couple of quids.

 

[MdB]

I would get hold of the longest crowbar / pry bar you can. Once under the concrete, you may well find you can break it up easily by lifting it up.

 

[robgil]

thanks guys , top tips there. i have had a peek and unfortunately the lovely old brick floor has gone. i am assuming it was brick because i have found some old yellow floor bricks here and there around the house.
i did find this lovely old floor in the lean to kitchen under the screed but its staying buried until i get the roof sorted.

 

[Flyfisher]

The biggest challenge is to get the first hole in the concrete. Once you have a good edge to work with a lump hammer may suffice with concrete of around 2 inches deep, especially if you can scoop away some of the underlying earth and thus remove the support to the slab. I also agree with MdB that with a long crowbar or pickaxe you might even find it easier to lift the slab causing it to break up - remember that concrete is relatively weak in tension so prising it apart is much easier than bashing it into submission, hence the importance of getting that first edge to work with.

Fencing suppliers often stock something called a 'landscaping tool' - a 4-5foot length of heavy steel rod with a chisel at one end and a point at the other. Similar principle as Middi's scaffolding pole suggestion really. Also, weight of the tool combined with the pointy end can make short work of breaking up thin concrete, once you have that all-important edge to work with.

Good point from Middi (as ever) about the potential for something original under the concrete.

 

[robgil]

The biggest challenge is to get the first hole in the concrete. Once you have a good edge to work with a lump hammer may suffice with concrete of around 2 inches deep, especially if you can scoop away some of the underlying earth and thus remove the support to the slab. I also agree with MdB that with a long crowbar or pickaxe you might even find it easier to lift the slab causing it to break up - remember that concrete is relatively weak in tension so prising it apart is much easier than bashing it into submission, hence the importance of getting that first edge to work with.

Fencing suppliers often stock something called a 'landscaping tool' - a 4-5foot length of heavy steel rod with a chisel at one end and a point at the other. Similar principle as Middi's scaffolding pole suggestion really. Also, weight of the tool combined with the pointy end can make short work of breaking up thin concrete, once you have that all-important edge to work with.

Good point from Middi (as ever) about the potential for something original under the concrete.

when i was doing fencing we called that a grafter , usually because when using it it was quite hard graft.

 

[Penners]

If I think I'm going to use a particular tool a lot then I'll spend more on it, otherwise I'll go for a cheaper option

That says it all, as far as I'm concerned, as a general policy on tools.

But, as middi points out, if you've got a substantial concrete slab to break up, then you might be better to forget buying a tool at all. Hiring a professional heavy-duty job might make the job a lot easier, without breaking the bank.

However, to repeat above advice again, do make sure that you're not going to destroy anything underneath the concrete.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

To echo the others - if this is the only (or one of a couple) of concrete slabs you have to break up, then it is probbaly far better economy to hire a dedicated machine, and save the money to buy a decent drill later. Whilst you can get petrol breakers or a stihl saw to cut the concrete, remember that these should not be used indoors unless you have very good ventilation.

It is certainly worth investing in a decent grafter - although the better ones are now very hard to find and have regular and expensive maintenance requirements. The very best grafter I have ever found is Mrs FW; if she clears spoil as I go along, then the efficiency of my new tool is remarkably increased. 8)

 

[robgil]

i wanted to employ ms robgil as my grafter in exchange for food , water and a camp bed but she is too pregnant at the moment , i tried to get some anti pregnant cream to see if we could get around it but the doctor said it wasn't possible , i am thinking about changing our doctor.

 

[skier-hughes]

i wanted to employ ms robgil as my grafter in exchange for food , water and a camp bed but she is too pregnant at the moment , i tried to get some anti pregnant cream to see if we could get around it but the doctor said it wasn't possible , i am thinking about changing our doctor.

Or just empoy Mrs FW, she can graft and then cook, clean and look after Mrs Robgil, sorted.

 

[Jon Maine]

Some f the budget tools are good value, I often buy second hand hilti tools as hilti have a price capped repair scheme on current models which is economic so I buy a knackered tool on Ebay send it to Hilti and the cost comes in at a third the cost of a new one!!

 

[robgil]

i wanted to employ ms robgil as my grafter in exchange for food , water and a camp bed but she is too pregnant at the moment , i tried to get some anti pregnant cream to see if we could get around it but the doctor said it wasn't possible , i am thinking about changing our doctor.

Or just empoy Mrs FW, she can graft and then cook, clean and look after Mrs Robgil, sorted.

can she drive? i need someone who can drive me to and from my local of an evening.

 

[robgil]

Some f the budget tools are good value, I often buy second hand hilti tools as hilti have a price capped repair scheme on current models which is economic so I buy a knackered tool on Ebay send it to Hilti and the cost comes in at a third the cost of a new one!!

i missed a decent hilti drill a few days ago on blag bay , ive heard good things about hilti stuff. there are lots of ex rental tools on there at the moment , hilti ,makita etc.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

i wanted to employ ms robgil as my grafter in exchange for food , water and a camp bed but she is too pregnant at the moment , i tried to get some anti pregnant cream to see if we could get around it but the doctor said it wasn't possible , i am thinking about changing our doctor.

Or just empoy Mrs FW, she can graft and then cook, clean and look after Mrs Robgil, sorted.

can she drive? i need someone who can drive me to and from my local of an evening.

I think I need to check the operation of my boiler/central heating. I put rogbil and Graham's suggestions to Mrs FW just now, and the temperature dropped considerably... :wink: