Telly?

[philpjuk100]

They f*ck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.
Larkin.

Gracious - what fascinating posts to read. How eloquent and interesting you all are.

There is no doubt that the parents' provision of education and opportunities usually leads to what is generally perceived as career success. (I'm an anomaly, content, most of the time, to be a drunken layabout despite my education - I blame my genetic inheritance)

 

[Nigel Watts]

I wish there was greater respect for, and interest in, traditional craftmanship and that this was pushed at school as much as a hedonistic 3 year stint at Bangor reading something like Applied Terrestrial Marine Ecology (now Biff will pop up and say that's a brilliant course :wink

I agree completely, but the current government has long been obsessed with doing down craft based training in favour of desk based learning in often completely feeble and useless subjects. City & Islington College used to have a fabulous furniture making facility (which I attended as a evening class student), run mainly by female tutors, which had such a nice atmosphere for both male and female students that youngsters even came from overseas to learn there. It was closed a few years ago. I attended some of the protest meetings. The then vice principal (I thnik that is who she was) had such a condescenting attitude. It was quite clear that she look down on the subject because it was not academic enough (how ironic, in what was in effect a technical college, not a univeristy).

bring back the Bolsheviks at once

This might be a step too far. I would hate to think of you being banged up in some Gulag for being the free thinker that you clearly are.

We really dont yet have a better mechanism than the market economy, but if and when fossil fuels get too expensive, or so rationed to curtail global warming, there will need to be a readjustment in the economic value of different activities. Producing, making, mending and recycling things more locally to where they are consumed and with less impact on the environment should become a more valued activity. Quite how we make this transition is not clear, but it will have to happen some day.

 

[Gervase]

It must be very different in Wales, because here we have no shortage of places for people wanting to learn a trade. Plumbing, carpentry, plastering, bricklaying; all of them and more are catered for by virtually every college around here and craft-based training is booming. Carmarthen College has even started offering lime plastering, stone-masonry and traditional timber construction, and all the courses are heavily subscribed.
It would be sad if it were true that all the technical colleges had shut their craft courses since I left England armed with my GNVQs. If that is the case, it seems perverse that the government has mounted a major campaign to encourage apprenticeships, with bursaries available for students and employers, while the CITB is reporting record numbers of trainees.
Might it not be that the fault lies not with the current government but societally - in that 'mere' technical colleges and FE colleges are regarded as somehow inferior, and that a university education is the only option considered for anyone who wishes to consider themselves middle class? It's not hard to imagine the reaction of many parents who shell out for the perceived exclusivity of independent education were young Chlamydia or Horatio to announce that s/he would rather be a plumber than an investment banker. I'd say that the rare times the middle classes embrace craft or trade jobs with anything other than embarrassment or condescension are during mid-life crises as part of an attempt to 'connect' or 'validate'.

 

[LadyArowana]

It's not hard to imagine the reaction of many parents who shell out for the perceived exclusivity of independent education were young Chlamydia or Horatio to announce that s/he would rather be a plumber than an investment banker. I'd say that the rare times the middle classes embrace craft or trade jobs with anything other than embarrassment or condescension are during mid-life crises as part of an attempt to 'connect' or 'validate'.

If they gave her that name then maybe they were anticipating her entering the oldest profession, where on the job training would be most appropriate :lol:

 

[JoceAndChris]

It must be very different in Wales, because here we have no shortage of places for people wanting to learn a trade. Plumbing, carpentry, plastering, bricklaying; all of them and more are catered for by virtually every college around here and craft-based training is booming. Carmarthen College has even started offering lime plastering, stone-masonry and traditional timber construction, and all the courses are heavily subscribed.
It would be sad if it were true that all the technical colleges had shut their craft courses since I left England armed with my GNVQs. If that is the case, it seems perverse that the government has mounted a major campaign to encourage apprenticeships, with bursaries available for students and employers, while the CITB is reporting record numbers of trainees.
Might it not be that the fault lies not with the current government but societally - in that 'mere' technical colleges and FE colleges are regarded as somehow inferior, and that a university education is the only option considered for anyone who wishes to consider themselves middle class? It's not hard to imagine the reaction of many parents who shell out for the perceived exclusivity of independent education were young Chlamydia or Horatio to announce that s/he would rather be a plumber than an investment banker. I'd say that the rare times the middle classes embrace craft or trade jobs with anything other than embarrassment or condescension are during mid-life crises as part of an attempt to 'connect' or 'validate'.

I can't disagree with any of that. I've recently been thinking about re-training, and when I went to the college here to find out about local opportunities all the courses you mention were available. (nothing in lime, or thatching, or rush-weaving, or dry stone walling however). This practical route is a very popular choice for the local lads - though I maintain in the varying range of schools I taught in (including inner city comp) these trades were never mentioned.

 

[JoceAndChris]

bring back the Bolsheviks at once

This might be a step too far. I would hate to think of you being banged up in some Gulag for being the free thinker that you clearly are.

Thanks Nigel! It doesn't sound much fun!

 

[Flyfisher]

We really dont yet have a better mechanism than the market economy,

That reminds me of the quotation "it's the worst system in the world, except for all the others - originally by Churchill, I believe, to describe democratic government.

Might it not be that the fault lies not with the current government but societally - in that 'mere' technical colleges and FE colleges are regarded as somehow inferior, and that a university education is the only option considered for anyone who wishes to consider themselves middle class?

I'd agree with that. Just consider how the term "engineer" is regarded in the UK compared with, say, Germany. Perhaps it's a throwback to the days of 'lower class' manual work becoming associated with 'technical' things. An old friend had frightfully posh parents who seemed to rejoice in the fact that they couldn't understand their 'vulgar' VCR but would happily display out-of-date invitations to the Hunt Ball and the like on their mantlepiece.

It's not hard to imagine the reaction of many parents who shell out for the perceived exclusivity of independent education were young Chlamydia or Horatio to announce that s/he would rather be a plumber than an investment banker.

Not so sure about that one. I agree with Yamin's earlier point about choice being the important thing and, in general, a better education gives people more choice. But ultimately, it's the individual's choice. There was a plumber as mature student on my degree course who passed with flying colours but went back to plumbing as he could earn more money doing that than pursuing a career as a research scientist. Er, come to think of it, I came to the same conclusion, went into the computer industry instead and am now doing my own plumbing in retirement. Funny old world.

 

[Moo]

My son* is successful.

I know that because he fits an old definition of A Successful Man: Someone who spends his time doing something he really enjoys. And someone else pays him for doing it.


(or, for the politically correct: A successful person is someone who spends his/her time doing something she/he really enjoys. And someone else pays him/her for doing it.)



* A freelance musician. When he's not being paid for doing it he does it some more, for fun.

 

[yamin]

My son* is successful.

I know that because he fits an old definition of A Successful Man: Someone who spends his time doing something he really enjoys. And someone else pays him for doing it.


(or, for the politically correct: A successful person is someone who spends his/her time doing something she/he really enjoys. And someone else pays him/her for doing it.)



* A freelance musician. When he's not being paid for doing it he does it some more, for fun.

Absolutely!

Calling him your 'son' is surely sexist and pigeonholing him into a gender stereotype he may not appreciate - do you think you should have put son/daughter or even my offspring?????? :roll: :lol: :lol:

 

[philpjuk100]

My son* is successful.

I know that because he fits an old definition of A Successful Man: Someone who spends his time doing something he really enjoys. And someone else pays him for doing it.


That brings to mind a lecturer that tried to teach me at college who gave us a little talk when he left teaching to coach the england fencing team and to set up his own fencing school,he said"if you can get paid to do your hobby you`ve cracked it!"
( whats that got to do with the telly?)

 

[middi]

Good point. " what is the point in having a telly"

AS it appears, not only we don't like most of the c**p that is broadcasted we also appear to hate the shape of the Box it is broadcasted on hence the majority of us have come up with brilliant ideas to hide it out of sight because it interferes with the objects with prefer to see.

The human curiosity is beyond belief. We appear to exell in creating a problem and then rejoice to the fact that we have solved it.

Sometimes I wonder if we are sane enough to prolong our existance on this planet.

 

[judrop]

I (think ) have learnt a great deal from watching T V over the years , like life, its what YOU make it. Theres always the "off" button, ( oh , and make sure it is off at the plug ). :wink:

 

[middi]

Knowledge ( as we all agree) has got us where we are today. One must wonder, though, where exactly are we?. The problem is that there is not enough people using "ALL !!! ??" this knowledge to do the wondering, the rest of the populus still prefer to kill, rob or con each other. ( no change in milleniums here then !!).

(I don't have answers I am one of those that does the wondering).

 

[DaveBrigg]

However, I do question whether it is right for bored, post-pubescent kids to be forced to stay at school and encouraged into higher education...
And yet his job typically commands more respect than say the clearly indispensible job of road-mender.

Our school sends a small coachload of year 10 and 11 pupils to a local college for half a day a week to study vocational subjects, usually motor mechanics or hospitality and catering. Some of the Scunthorpe schools have a larger programme. Another local school has gained specialist status in engineering, investing in new facilities and staff. The government are working on the implementation of a scheme whereby a consortium of local schools will provide qualifications in more vocational subjects, with pupils able to travel to a nearby school for lessons if they offer a course which appeals. The major difficulty in this area is the logistics of transporting large numbers of pupils between sites which may be 10 miles apart. An individual school does not have the skills or facilities to offer a sufficient range of subjects. Many pupils are also encouraged into higher education because of the opportunities it presents. A major government target is to reduce the number of NEETS - young people Not in Education, Employment or Training.

Without any disrespect to Chris, I hope it will not be too much of a surprise to know that around here the amount of respect commanded by bankers is only slightly above that achieved by Gary Glitter, whereas given the effects of the recent weather, anyone would be proud to call a road-mender their friend.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Gosh how interesting - I'm out of touch with current goings on, plus all my (limited) teaching experience was in London, where that sort of stuff was not happening 2 years ago.

I think it's a great idea, but, yes, must be a logistical nightmare especially with all the accountability/ risk assessments etc.

Agree with you on the road-menders (and delivery drivers ) - but Chris isn't a banker, he's a computer programmer. Not that I buy into any of this "let's all hate every banker " b*llocks.

 

[Nigel Watts]

Just been helping my 14 year old with his GSCE choices. Please to see that, although he is at an academic school, one practical subject is compulsory and he can do two if he wishes. He also has to do two of the three sciences and dumbed down General Science is not an option. They also take the harder IGCSEs.

 

[yamin]

Thats really good - never good to have too much emphasis on one side or the other - hopefully your son will be a more rounded and knowledgeable individual who is better placed to make the choices he wants when the time comes.

 

[LadyArowana]

I also read in this excellent work, gentleman, that stale chi is caused if you do not allow us ladies to frequently move, and change the furniture, and ornaments, and refresh the paint and fabric schemes. Stale chi will mean your endeavours are unlikely to prosper. Furthermore, the highly-ornamented wife and home (necessitating plenty of new jewellery, no Argos carp either), is the most likely to bring luck and love into your life.

I think this is my new favourite book!

I am spending the afternoon putting up my Chinese New Year decorations, so I hope this will attract many good things for next year! I would start a thread to see how other people are preparing to welcome the Year of the Tiger, but I expect I am alone in the endeavour as far as the forum is concerned. Of course cat lovers should really be doing something in celebration of their larger cousin, and before we revive the whole cat V dog discussion the others will get their turn come 2018. An interesting co-incidence that Joce mentioned "Argos carp" because even though the reference was to jewellery, my CNY decor features fish. I was told a long time ago that they should be pointing into the house not out of the front door, so that funds swim in rather than exit. Traditionally a time to have new clothes and jewellery, red and pink particularly auspicious, not dumb those Chinese ladies. Another co-incidence is that it will fall on Valentines day this year, a rare thing.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Oh, how lovely. I must say I think our culture is a bit short on superstitious ritual, so I'm excited to see what small thing I can do to welcome the year of the Tiger, my favourite animal.

I should maybe print out Blake's lovely etching (I love this tiger, he looks so innocuous) and hang it in an auspicious spot.

Also, I think ritual, magic, visualisation, witchcraft, the creation of "luck" works - I'm certain of it.

Hope you get lots of good luck this year Lady A!

 

[LadyArowana]

Oh, how lovely. I must say I think our culture is a bit short on superstitious ritual, so I'm excited to see what small thing I can do to welcome the year of the Tiger, my favourite animal.

I should maybe print out Blake's lovely etching (I love this tiger, he looks so innocuous) and hang it in an auspicious spot.

Also, I think ritual, magic, visualisation, witchcraft, the creation of "luck" works - I'm certain of it.

Hope you get lots of good luck this year Lady A!

That sounds like a splendid idea, maybe you should make it somewhat like an oriental scroll, a true east west fusion, and your kitty should be feted with some special treat as well. Cherry blossom, oranges and pineapples are all good things to be displayed for Chinese New Year, I could see those fitting nicely with the country look.