Stripping paint from pine bay window and front door

[Craig89]

Now that my other half has 6 weeks off she is itching for a project. The bay window and front door of our property are in need of some love. Theres a thick layer of paint on each (the sashes on the bay are painted shut) and it need stripping off, freeing up and repainting again. Im aware there have been a few topics on this as I have been doing some searching but I was just after some fresh opinions and experiences in the best method of stripping all the old paint off. Especially in the nooks and crannys of the ornate woodwork. I have read that Klingstrip is a good product. Would this be best suited for my needs? Many thanks, Craig.

 

[bobby spray]

A heat gun a a good scraper will get you some of the way there. Iv'e never used Klingstrip so can't help you with that one. Howerver stay away from Nitromors - EU regulation on it's active ingredients have made it useless.

 

[Feltwell]

I wouldn't bother with chemical strippers, especially outside & where you will be over-painting again. They are messy and slow, and you have to ensure all residues are neutralised before you paint.

An electric heat gun, scrapers and patience is what I would advise, followed by sanding. I'd also say take the old sashes out first - makes the job easier. Beware that it may only be the paint that's holding them in place, if they were over-painted, then the cords rotted and weights dropped! I put a prop underneath mine before I start trying to free them....

This old thread of mine may be of interest, your bay looks in much better condition than mine was.

https://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16118&p=219960&hilit=bay#p219960

Decent scrapers are a must, my most useful one by far is one of these:-

https://www.livingrooms.ws/products/little-scraper-for-putty-and-paint

A combination scraper helps for curved surfaces.

Interesting plumbing! What's the IBC for?

 

[MatthewC]

I agree - heat gun and decent scrapers, plus a lot of patience and good ventilation.

As regards the painted-in sash windows, also be aware that sometimes the upper sash was never an opening window, and so may have been secured with a couple of nails/pins diagonally at the bottom corners. Fortunately, I was aware of the possibility of no cords still existing, and made sure that I had a hand holding the upper sash when I ran a knife down the painted joins. Of course, the nails had rusted away long ago so it was indeed only paint that was holding the window in place.

NB last week I finished the complete (bare wood and original glass) renovation of the last sash window in the house - what joy!

 

[Craig89]

Thanks for the replies. Since first posting I had come round to the idea of trying the heat gun and scrapers, hopefully the other half has the patience for it. Very informative thread Feltwell and what a brilliant job you did. Im hoping mine wont require that level of repair.

How long did it take you to do? I dont want to expose mine to the elaments anymore than required. Is it pretty straight forward to remove the sashes?

We are currenly putting an extension on the side and the drains are all cut off so the IBCs are collecting rain water

 

[Cubist]

Hi Craig,

So long as you don't let the heat linger on or too near the glass a heat gun and scraper will get you ready for paint a lot faster than any chemical strippers - and a lot cheaper too.

Cheers,
Cubist

 

[Feltwell]

Im hoping mine wont require that level of repair.

I think you can rest easy on that one - from your pictures, yours is in far better condition than mine was. Ignore yours for another 20 years and it'll reach the same stage :wink:

How long did it take you to do? I dont want to expose mine to the elaments anymore than required. Is it pretty straight forward to remove the sashes?

Months! But that was to do the full job, down to:-

- Distractions - full time job and 3 kids amongst others
- Weather
- Inclination
- Procrastination
- Requirement to eat KitKats (old forum joke, don't worry....)

In all seriousness, I tend to take the sashes out, clean them up, and paint them in my garage. At the same time I clean up the inside of the box frame (the bit the sashes slide up & down in - sorry if that's patronising, not meant to be - called a box due to the cavity the weights move in) and paint that. How long does that take? If repairs aren't too onerous I tend to need a couple of weeks, bearing in mind it's weekends & evenings only, & if the putty is shot the glass needs to come out and be put back in again with fresh putty, and you need to put multiple coats of paint on both sides of the sashes. I board the window up for that period. With a bay you can at least do the centre first then the 2 sides afterwards, to keep some light coming in.

Once the sashes are back in you can strip, clean up and paint the rest of the outside & inside at your leisure without disturbing the sashes.

Removing sashes - yes, straightforward, like all these things when you know how and have had a bit of practice. Takes a bit longer and needs more care if the sashes are painted shut. I tend to

- Score the paint line & take the staff bead off the inside
- Bottom sash can then come out, cutting the cords as they will be replaced anyway
- Take the parting bead out
- Remove the top sash in the same way
- Remove the sash pockets and weights

That's a heavily abridged summary. I have said to myself that the next sash window that I do I'll document for a thread on here, as everyone seemed to like the bay window one.

I draftproof the windows with new staff & parting beads, makes them slide a lot better as well. I now use Bedec MSP water based paint - lots of threads on that if you search - and use a putty replacement, as water based paint doesn't like linseed putty. New cords are a must (unless you have chains!) and I find the pulleys are usually well & truly past their best as well.

Sash refurbishment is well within the scope of any reasonable DIY'r. How far you take it is up to you - to draftproof it fully takes a bit longer and needs a router to do the whole job, but I think is well worth it.

Hope that helps!

 

[Westholme]

Is the photo of the banister to show the building work or do you want to strip that too?

 

[Craig89]

Thanks again for the detailed reply Feltwell. Although I would like to draftproof the window this is just a strip and repaint project at the moment, for protection purposes really, as I have a million other jobs with a higher priority at the moment. I may have a go at removing a sash tomorrow and see how that goes. Im glad you have mentioned what paint you have had success with as that was going to be my next question.

Is the photo of the banister to show the building work or do you want to strip that too?

I also would like to strip the banister too

 

[plasticpigeon]

It is easy to break glass with a heat stripper. Mine heat gun has an attachment that looks like a scraper. i don't think it is reall meant for scraping but actually to protect the glass from the heat when stripping, so when going round the glass use this bit if you have it. regarding the yellow frame, if the paint is just a bit flakey then perhaps a rub down and repaint would do. Stripping all that dentil cornice would be a nightmare. If the sashes are painted stuck, then taking them out to strip and paint would be good. If you do this, you cannot really save the old beading so it would be worthwhile putting in draughtproof beading. It is not a days work though, more like a couple of weekends, so if you go down this route have a piece of board cut to put in!!!

 

[Feltwell]

I may have a go at removing a sash tomorrow and see how that goes.

If you're careful you'll get the staff beads - that's the moulding that round the inside of the sash box that keeps your bottom sash in - out without breaking them. Score the paintline, start in the middle of the 2 vertical beads and gently tap them with a bit of scrap wood as a drift towards the centre of the window, if you can get a purchase on them - if you're lucky they're pinned in place and will start to move, they have enough flex in them that you can then persuade them out in one piece. The top & bottom beads you can leave in place. Your bottom sash then comes out.

Once a sash is free just cut the cords close to the sash and lower the weights if the cord is still intact - I'd always change the cord. Replace old sash cord with nylon cord would be my advice, it's pre-stretched and doesn't rot like the waxed cotton cord did, visually I think it's OK - the plain white cord soon dulls down. Reddiseals or Mightons sell it.

The parting bead, that keeps the inner & outer sashes apart, is another matter - I find they invariably break as they are thin & so well gripped in position by old paint. They sit in a groove in the sash box. If you break them though you'll still have enough left to least put the sashes back temporarily. The good news is any decent timber merchant still stocks both beads, and they were nearly always made in a standard size. Reddiseals or Mightons do them online if you get stuck. Important to get the old bead out without damaging the groove in the sash box, go carefully.

Is it the top sash that's fixed shut? If so it may be nailed shut through the horns, that's the curved bit that projects below the bottom sides of the top sash. If you can get a multitool blade behind there I find that's the easiest way, cut through the nails. May well just be the paint holding it in place though, be careful! The sash cords have probably long since rotted through if the window is stuck shut, but I've had one or two that hadn't given way until I disturbed the sash from it's slumber, at which point the cords broke sending the weights crashing to the bottom of the box with a very alarming crash! It's also possible that the sash was never intended to move - most were though.

Once the parting bead is out and top sash removed, you need to remove the sash pocket covers to get to the weights - that's a removable bit of frame lining on each side low down. They are usually stuck shut - score round the edge to break the paint but if they're still tight don't lever them out, so many people do, you just damage the edge of them if you do that. Instead drive a screw into the slot where the parting bead was about 1" from the bottom edge, leaving the head proud - then use a wrecker bar hooked over that, braced against a bit of scrap wood on the frame, and the bottom of the pocket should lever gently out with no damage. They are usually shaped at the top to hold them in, it's the bottom edge that comes out first.

Last thing - good idea to check the sash weights, the glass may have been changed and the sashes not re-weighted. The weights for the top sash should be around half a pound heavier in total than the top sash, so it's pushed shut. The ones for the bottom sash should be around half a pound lighter than the sash, so the sash's own weight pushes it shut. Bathroom scales are accurate enough, it doesn't need to be perfect. If you need a heavier weight don't throw yours away, you can get "make weights" from, yes, Reddiseals or Mightons, that thread over the cord and sit on top of your existing weights.

Oh yes, never paint the side edges of the sashes, that go against the box frame - if you do there is a good chance they'll stick horribly. No need to paint them, they're well out of the weather.

 

[Westholme]

Is the photo of the banister to show the building work or do you want to strip that too?

I also would like to strip the banister too

My 125 year old banisters are stained (and varnished presumably) and I am so glad they were never painted because I think they look a hundred times better the way they are. Why go to the trouble of turning newels and balusters/spindles and then smother them in paint? I assume my newels and balusters are pine but I'm not sure about the handrails. A couple of pics:

http://oi66.tinypic.com/29cq4d1.jpg

http://oi68.tinypic.com/33pd6rs.jpg

I've never stripped banisters and I don't need to, but I recommend that you investigate whether it is possible to dismantle your banister as much as you can and pay to have the parts stripped, the balusters at the very least. I wouldn't let a heat gun get anywhere near them. A poultice-type stripper, Peel Away or Kling-Strip, seems to be the way to go for the bits that can't be removed, although I haven't used either.

Your stairs appear to have a wall both sides. Was your house one of three originally? Did building the extension mean losing your chimney stacks?

 

[Feltwell]

I'm not so sure about dismantling banisters and spindles I have to say - I think the chances of damaging them are too high. Agree that I wouldn't let a heat gun anywhere near them - totally different situation, too much danger of marking the wood. I'd always prefer to use a heat gun but only in situations where I am painting the wood again afterwards. Strippers of Sudbury are a well respected supplier of paint stripping chemicals and they do sample packs, I'd suggest some experimentation in a discrete area.

My staircase was stripped in-situ of gloss paint successfully by a previous owner using chemicals, however they then didn't make a great job of the staining. It's a "5 yard job" as they sometimes say about classic cars - it looks good but only from 5 yards away! I'll have a go at improving the look of it at some point, but it's not very high on my list.

 

[livias]

Be careful there may well be lead based paint on that window so using a heat gun could be dangerous. Make sure your other half has a good and suitable quality of mask

and ..
I once stripped the paint off a staircase just like that one. NEVER AGAIN :shock: :shock: :shock: Tedious, fiddly, time consuming, back breaking .....

 

[plasticpigeon]

What is the best way other than a heat gun? I have used peelaway, but the cleanup is even worse as there is always some paint residue and poultice that needs to be washed off. At least with a heat gun the paint can be contained and few fumes are given off if the paint is not burned but just softened. I have a half face mask with combined filters and a vacuum with HEPA filter bags for the the little bits that I can't get in a plastic bag and don't stay on the plastic sheeting I put down. I'm not sure what else can be done.

 

[livias]

According to the health and safety executive ...
http://www.hse.gov.uk/construction/healthrisks/hazardous-substances/lead.htm

Respiratory Protective Equipment (RPE) – wear RPE with an assigned protection factor of 20 (eg FFP3 disposable mask or half mask with P3 filter

Working in a good airflow has got to be good. You want to avoid stripping lead in a closed room

 

[TheRoost]

In addition to strippers of Sudbury, I find it useful to have a tub of 'homestrip' which is a water based gel type stripper, available from DIY shops, really good on modern gloss paint as it bubbles the paint and it almost falls away in ribbons. Older paint it tends to just soften so needs scraping to remove. Sometimes I find once the modern thick paint is off, the old paint layers are so thin and smooth they can be left on.

 

[88v8]

Back to the bay, I certainly wouldn't strip that cornice. As PP says it would be a nightmare job. Just sanding down all the nooks and crannies will be bad enough.
If you have original wonky glass, be very very careful with the heat gun. New hand-drawn glass is expensive, and if you change the thickness/weight of the glass you will be faffing around with the balance weights as well.

Stair spindles, stripping in-situ tedious and difficult. And too easy to damage them with the scraper. In our previous house I removed all the spindles, they were only skew-nailed top and bottom. Then they can be dipped. Unlike doors, they will not suffer from dipping although one's fingers suffer from sanding them afterwards.
Try removing one, see if they will come out without damage. On a better quality staircase they may be mortised.
I suspect this could be a job for the One Day list of things that will never get done.

Ivor

 

[88v8]

If you have original wonky glass, be very very careful with the heat gun. New hand-drawn glass is expensive, and if you change the thickness/weight of the glass you will be faffing around with the balance weights as well.

Pretty narcissistic to be quoting oneself, but just on this point; the problem with the heat gun is that one cannot see the flame. So even with a heat shield, it's very easy to break the glass. When stripping adjacent to glass I much prefer a small blowlamp. Then I can see exactly what's happening. And I don't strip in the sun*, the reason being that the sun makes the flame invisible.
So I'd strip most of the paint with the heat gun, and then go back near the glass with a small blowlamp.
That's all.

Small... unlike Brexit, small means small
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BUTANE-GAS-MINI-SMALL-WIRELESS-BLOW-LAMP-TORCH-COOK-CHEF-SOLDERING-WELDING-14B/231049509160?epid=2255410191&hash=item35cb9fb928:g:OpEAAMXQLs5RuAgM

Ivor

PS for the Period blowlamp experience, here's one powered by petrol. I recall my Dad nearly setting the house alight with one of these in the 60s. Not for windows.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BLOW-TORCH-LAMP-2L-BLOWLAMP-BLOWTORCH-BLOWPIPE-FUEL-PETROL-GASOLINE-GAS-BURNER/251155940444?hash=item3a7a0f845c:gtQAAOxyW7tRg9xu

* and in any case, a suntan would make me excessively attractive.

 

[Flyfisher]

Uh-oh . . . you mentioned the 'B' word . . .