Slot head countersunk steel woodscrews

[Me!]

Does anybody know if any of the major DIY or Builders merchant chains still stock a good range of these? B&Q have some but not the sizes I need, and all the others I've just tried are pozidrive only. If not, I've just found this supplier on the web -


http://www.screwsline.co.uk/

Does anybody have any experience of them, or recommendations of anyone else?

Thank you.

 

[biffvernon]

I hate pozidrive and all those other silly things that you can't get a real screwdriver into.

So what's wrong with http://www.screwsline.co.uk/a2_stainless_wood_screws_csk_slotted.php
or Screwfix?

 

[Gervase]

Jewsons do a full range of slot-head wood screws. Screwfix, though, has a very comprehensive range, and if you order before 6pm they guarantee the order will be delivered the next day - and I've not known tbem fail, even out here on the western fringes. Steel, BZP and brass - take your pick!

 

[Me!]

Biff, Gervase, thank you for that.

I've been using Screwfix for many years, and I agree that their service and delivery speed is fantastic. However, I should have been more specific and said that I would like mild steel rather than stainless because I want the heads to be a bit rusted to match the other ones in the house, and they only do stainless in slotted head.

Screwsline was the site that I mentioned in my earlier post, and I agree that they look like a good option. Have you tried them before, and are they OK?

My local Jewsons was one of the ones I tried yesterday morning before posting, and I've got some bad news I'm afraid. They only had about a dozen boxes of slot head mild steel screws left, and they were all 'reduced to clear' because they were being discontinued. If your local branch is still being restocked with them I'd be very interested to know, because I asked in my branch to be sure and they said that when they were gone, that was the end of them.

 

[Lime]

The stock is down here as well but there are some sizes still available.
I have never tried this supplier so cannot comment on service.

http://tinyurl.com/ymm42y

Failing that perhaps you could use zinc plated mild steel and file the zinc (or chemically remove) it from the flat of the head.

 

[Penners]

I know this is going to brand me as a devil-worshipper, but I can't be doing with slothead screws. The screwdriver slips out, the slot gets worn and useless, and they're hopeless for driving with a battery screwdriver.

If pozi or hi-torq had been invented first, then Bert Slott had come along and said "buy my slothead screws - they're prettier", he'd have been regarded as a nutter.

OK - I've donned my kevlar. Fire away.

 

[Gervase]

No, I won't be flaming you! I have to knock up a lot of cheap and cheerful wooden forms and shuttering for repairing arches, laying floors and the like, and cross-head screws and an 18v impact driver are possibly the best combination imaginable.
When I see stickers saying "What would Jesus do," I know that, as a jobbing chippe, he'd probably use a Makita impact driver (or possibly an autofeed driver with collated screws - cross head, of course) :lol:
But, for visible hinges and cabinet work, you can't beat brass or iron slot-heads all nicely aligned, I'll concede.

 

[biffvernon]

slot-heads all nicely aligned.

Damn, I knew I was doing something wrong

 

[skier-hughes]

Should they go up and down or right to left?
I assume up and down so any water doesn't get lodged in the slot and rust the screw away.

 

[Lime]

For quick and easy fitting anything other than slotted is best with automatic tools.
However if the screw requires a large amount of torque on it then slotted wins hands down.
Slipping off a slotted screw is easily done if the screwdriver is not of the correct shape but a well-filed slotted screwdriver that fits well is a pleasure to use.

All types of screw require a proper fitting screwdriver to work well.
I've lost count of the various crosshead screws that have been stripped because the driver has become worn.

Isn't it strange that the only easily repaired screwdriver (the slotted) is usually the one that is never looked after?
I suppose it is too handy for opening tins, splitting laminates and chiseling whatever for it to last in perfect condition.

But has anyone attempted to reshape any of the crosshead screwdrivers?
Next to impossible IME.

 

[thiambal]

Our local wood yard is selling boxes of 200 mild steel slot head screws of various sizes for 20p +vat.

But that is not much help to you in suffolk.

 

[dandrew]

Try these guys
I've used them before and they seem to have every type of screw, nail & fastening imaginable.
Delivery is within 48h in my experience

http://www.toolfastdirect.co.uk/index.html

 

[Penners]

However if the screw requires a large amount of torque on it then slotted wins hands down

Sorry Lime - I can't agree. A hi-torq screw will take any amount of torque (could the name be the clue? :wink: ) without the bit jumping out of the socket.

I agree that a pozi bit can "cam out" but this can be useful in preventing a power screwdriver from wringing the head off.

 

[Penners]

Should they go up and down or right to left?

In the UK, vertical. In Japan, horizontal.

 

[Gervase]

I agree that a pozi bit can "cam out" but this can be useful in preventing a power screwdriver from wringing the head off.

The joy of an impact driver is the that actual twisting torque is reduced, so the screw head remains unburred - I've put a three-inch BZP screw into oak before now and then removed it - with one hand - and the screw still looked as if it hadn't been used. I know I sound as though I'm on commission, but they really are the most extraordinarly useful tool.

 

[Lime]

However if the screw requires a large amount of torque on it then slotted wins hands down

Sorry Lime - I can't agree. A hi-torq screw will take any amount of torque (could the name be the clue? :wink: ) without the bit jumping out of the socket.

I agree that a pozi bit can "cam out" but this can be useful in preventing a power screwdriver from wringing the head off.

The physics of the slotted screw means that the turning moment can be applied to the extreme edge of the head.
That gives far greater leverage directly to the screw than any design that only uses the centre of the head.
Like for like the slotted is able to give greater torque.

As for hi-torq, yes, the name does tell me something.
First it tells me that centre driven screws suffer from an inability to give sufficient turning moment hence the need for the "hi-torq" screw.
Second that they hope you will translate Hi-torq to mean High torque which is not neccessarily so.
Third it does not mean to say that slotted screws are weaker and less able to give higher torque in comparison. They just hope that you will think so.

A toughened, hardened slotted screw is more able, by design, to give greater torque.

 

[Me!]

Should they go up and down or right to left?

I was once told by an old carpenter that the slot should align with the grain of the wood that it was screwed into. This was usually achievable without too much trouble, but has become more difficult recently as modern screws (even slot heads) seem to have a much greater pitch on their thread than older screws. I've still got an old box of Nettlefolds (Pre-GKN?) screws, and their thread pitch is less than half some of my most recent ones. With a coarse thread into a hard wood, it can be very difficult to align them correctly without the heads either being proud of the surface or pulled well beneath it. The problem is even worse when screwing through metal hinges, as there is virtually no give and take available in setting the depth of the head.

Thank you for the suggestions of suppliers, I'll try ordering some and let you know how I get on.

 

[Penners]

The joy of an impact driver is the that actual twisting torque is reduced, so the screw head remains unburred - I've put a three-inch BZP screw into oak before now and then removed it - with one hand - and the screw still looked as if it hadn't been used. I know I sound as though I'm on commission, but they really are the most extraordinarly useful tool.

I've never tried that - but I certainly shall.

I find that trying to drill wood with the impact function switched on is useless. The drill just bounces, rather than cutting. I suppose I just assumed that the same would be true of screwdriving (he said, judiciously avoiding the use of the term "screwing" for fear of sniggers from the fourth-formers).

 

[Penners]

The physics of the slotted screw means that the turning moment can be applied to the extreme edge of the head.
That gives far greater leverage directly to the screw than any design that only uses the centre of the head.
Like for like the slotted is able to give greater torque.

Here I go again! Sorry, but I disagree with the physics of your argument.

I suggest that the important factor in applying torque to a screwhead is not the width of the socket (be it slot, pozi or whatever), or the width of the bit that fits it, but the diameter of the screwdriver handle. The thicker the handle, the more the mechanical advantage.

Then we come to the ability of the screwhead to accept the turning moment. A slot falls down on two counts: firstly it offers far less surface area for the bit to contact, so the stress on the driven surfaces is greater. Hi-torq or pozi sockets, being multi-faceted, offer a greater surface area, reducing the stress and thus the risk of damage. They are also concentrates in the centre of the head where the metal is thickest, thus strongest.

I also assert that the disadvantage of a slot is that the screwdriver blade must be perfectly aligned with it in two planes for it to work effectively, and for avoidance of damage to the slot. The other two shapes offer much greater guidance to the bit, and are more tolerant of slight misalignment.

Wow! This is really interesting! (Although I suspect that some may disagree!)

 

[Penners]

While we're boring the @rses of those who have no interest in screws, can anyone tell me why drywall screws always have a Phillips crosshead socket, rather than a pozi one?

This seems to be the last bastion of Phillips loyalty (other than the crappy Chinese screws that come free with curtain rail kits).