Selecting a good lime plasterer

[AMc]

FWIW I think the highlight from the window is showing a curve that makes it look like the whole ceiling is bowing quite scarily.
We have some reed ceilings here that look in a similar state - previous occupants put embossed wall paper over them to cover the cracks. When I painted some of them there was no indication of anything loose or hollow sounding and some of them have rooms above we use regularly - I reckon that the reed offers a tighter grip on the plaster than the lath elsewhere in the house but I'm no expert.

I don't really understand the issue with the chandelier? I assume that as well as fixing it to a joist or two you want a decorative moulding as well - wouldn't that be attached to the joists as well not the plaster?

If it doesn't move and doesn't sound hollow then I'd be tempted to keep it. Can you get a look at it from above?

 

[JoceAndChris]

Thanks for all the new posts - all most interesting. Especially thank you to Gareth, the company he mentioned to me are not only extremely prestigious, with a genuine range of experience on places such as Harlaxton Manor, Audley End, and Holkam, but also very willing to take on little projects like this. They are sending someone out, so as long as their quotation doesn't amount to many thousands I hope I'm sorted for a good tradesman.

Matthew - you really do seem to have the best interests of your property at heart and it sounds like your plaster work has been ravaged by damp, poor you! Just this thing you say -

when you press on the plaster and a couple of square feet move, it surely indicates that it is going to fall off soon

I'm not really sure I agree with. Lots of plaster work bounces, or sounds hollow here, but we've been here nearly three years and it hasn't fallen off. And it has been here for two hundred years. I keep spare rolls of wallpaper handy for emergency repairs.
Every case is different though and it is impossible to make generalisations on these matters,or judge others' decisions to remove or keep. But I know I fell in love with this place because most of the interior walls, floors, ceilings and joinery are very old, and if I changed them all to new the magic would be lost. So I'll stick to my guns abd if it falls down, it gets replaced, if not, it doesn't.

We have some reed ceilings here that look in a similar state - previous occupants put embossed wall paper over them to cover the cracks.

The leading company I just spoke to also suggested lining paper, he said cracks are inevitable if you walk around on old reed ceilings and lining paper + breathable paint on top was a good solution if you don't want to look at them.

I don't really understand the issue with the chandelier? I assume that as well as fixing it to a joist or two you want a decorative moulding as well - wouldn't that be attached to the joists as well not the plaster?

The issue with the chandelier is that I was worried that walking up and down on the joists to fix it would destroy the ceiling, whereas just upgrading the wall sconces would mean it doesn't have to be walked on from above. However I've just seen Macavity, who is well over a stone of muscle and bone (not fat), bouncing around on there, so I crawled in and gingerly took some pics:

and some more from underneath, showing the worst cracks and eruptions:

Interesting to see evidence of a very old repair along these cracks, the mind boggles to think who did this- seeing as I removed woodchip (1970s), layer on layer of paint and distemper, then very old lining paper underneath that, and some more layers of distemper under that.

We will see what this new company have to say, I'll email the pics to them too. Thanks again for all the feedback.

 

[Penners]

Hmmm - having seen a close-up of those cracks and holes, I'm back-pedalling a bit on my filler suggestion. It's strange, isn't it, because viewed from above the reeds look in good condition.

I'm sure Gareth will give you the best guidance. But I do think that you and Macavity need to be having a serious discussion about his treks across the reeds.

 

[MatthewC]

Macavity! What a wonderful name for PPUK cat.

Your reed ceiling, Joce, is of far more historic interest than my laths - I think I verge on the side of "look after it VERY carefully and hope", rather than pulling it down. As you say, the joists are thin and so the whole thing would bow under your weight, and I wouldn't think that even Macavity's weight doesn't do the fragile reeds and plaster any good.

PS I note your comments about my plaster but I reckon that the speed with which Jane was able to remove the old plaster certainly showed that it was indeed hardly attached to the laths! In fact, in one room, the wallpaper was holding the damp plaster to the wall...

 

[JoceAndChris]

My goodness Matthew that is much worse than here. The damp must have really got into your building - how satisfying for you to sort it all out.
To be honest the previous owner broke the back of this restoration in the 80s, in rebuilding the roof and the guttering, and I'm sure also skimming over damaged plaster with cement here and there. The house has suffered a little with damp subsequently owing to breaks in the chestnut guttering but it's basically fine.
Macavity would like it to be known that he has the serious business of mice to attend to. When we moved in here, he begged to be allowed in the roof and would spend hours in there, often emerging with a mouse. You'd hear the sound of scuttling, under the floorboards, in the roof. It was a really bad infestation. They ate all the lagging off the pipes - all those reeds were covered in their droppings. Macavity put a stop to all that nonsense, and no mice have moved back since. But I will tell him he can relax his efforts now.

 

[MatthewC]

That's it, then. It's the mice who have caused your ceiling to sag!

 

[LadyArowana]

I'm sure Gareth will give you the best guidance. But I do think that you and Macavity need to be having a serious discussion about his treks across the reeds.

Shouldn't be too difficult to train him to walk on the joists :lol:

 

[Penners]

Macavity would like it to be known that he has the serious business of mice to attend to.

So it's a straight choice - the mice or the ceiling. Which is to be? (I had to restrain myself from adding "punk" to the end of that sentence! :wink: )

 

[AMc]

If your reed is as stable as mine is then I wouldn't worry about a cat - even a fat one - wandering about on it.
They way it's bound together and fixed produces a very stable bond - I wouldn't walk on it but I would let my cat esp. if there were mice to be evicted.
Having removed some reed (leaky roof, needed to replace the rafters) and removed lath (wall was going) the reed was mush more sturdy and resisted quite serious attempts to remove it despite several years of being dripped on. The lath came away much more easily despite being bone dry.

Oh and make sure your insurance cover is replacement like for like I'm sure that it must be possible to obtain reed if you have the funds.

Even with the close up holes which look worse then the overall view if you're comfortable with it then I would get it repaired or polyfilla and line.

 

[JoceAndChris]

:lol: :lol: :lol:
But Macav isn't fat, I tell you.

Seriously though - great advice from AMc and others in this thread. This forum remains priceless. xxx

 

[CatherineB]

Of course he's not fat, Joce, he's big-boned

 

[Penners]

This forum remains priceless.

As it's free, that's rather a good description.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Well I've just had a visit from the amazing Mr Carrington, who loved the house and wanted to look at every little bit. It took a while to organise as he's a busy man - his head plasterer has recently finished off the exterior render at Strawberry, for example, and he said this summer is already booked up for exterior lime work, and on no account should it be attempted beyond August given the severity of the last two winters.
At twenty paces, he knew from whence the stones of the building had been quarried. The dining room and drawing room fireplace marble were dug up on the Chatsworth estate, it's a kind of fossilised marble no longer available. The roof is Collyweston slate. The hall flags came from Great Ponton, except for one or later replacements which came from Ancaster. Those he dated as all being Regency, (he concurs with Mr Hughes on the date of the building) and original to the building. The York stone plinth all around the outside he said could not have got here without the introduction of the railway and so he thought it was late Victorian, or later, a more solid attempt at controlling damp than an earlier limestone plinth. He was able to discuss at great length (but with a very down to earth attitude ) the precise kind of plastering the exterior of the cottage needs, a formal style composing of "lining out" to create very straight lines and then a scoring to imitate ashlar, and even scored keystones above windows. He proposes a narrower plinth at the base, a gully at the back and a French drain around the front. He also thinks 2 extra breakfast room windows are currently hiding behind the plinth, which should be exposed and reinstated during the next phase. He seemed rather surprised that there wasnt a single squeak out of me about wanting an exposed stone cottage, but then he clocked all the architectural history books lying round everywhere and realised he was dealing with someone who cared about how the original builders intended it to look.
He identified that the exposed stone in the basement section had only ever had layer on layer of limewash,and suggested I do that rather than lime plaster it, which is rather good news as it means there is something I can just get on with.
He also liked the very early floor tiles in the cold storage area that Penners was responsible for saving. The dining room ceiling, the main purpose of the visit, was given a reprieve and identified as a basically healthy and sound structure, though the joists above were thought too flimsy to support a chandelier, which he said would have to be suspended from a more solid structure above them. He would want 3 days spent on the ceiling with all manner of screws going in and patch repairs and crack repairs and cornice repairs (he said the run in situ cornice was far too important to be covered up, although it's very plain) then a papering.
The costs -ouch. £1000 for the ceiling and £10,000 for the front elevation. I hope and think we can do both at some point in the next two years but the stupid perspex roof, for which I've just received a shocking quote of £1300, is going to have to take priority this month.

 

[skier-hughes]

I said it'd all click into place when you found the right person......... don't you feel a weight off your shoulders knowing he'll look after your house as well as you do?
I'm just asking Julie to come back and do some more work on ours this summer, we both seem as excited by it as each other

 

[Penners]

his head plasterer has recently finished

Probably just as well - there doesn't seem to be much call for head plastering these days.

It sounds as though you've definitely found the right man! Not just a plasterer, but a wealth of period property knowledge. Excellent!

The quote for the replacement of the perspex roof is, almost to the penny, the same as ours cost us. And from memory I'd say it's about the same size roof as ours. I just thought that might reassure you that you're not being fleeced.

 

[Juju]

That sounds fantastic Joce - it's wonderful getting a knowledgeable and interested person to work on your house. The costs sound fair to me given the work involved and the fact that you're paying for a good craftsman.
Juju

 

[JoceAndChris]

Thanks for the posts - Mr P, thank you so much for the reassurance on the roof quote. I'll update the other thread with it as I've a couple of queries, but it's good to know that my trust is well placed in that joiner.

Graham - yes - "clicking into place" is very much how it feels and an end to the awful pressure to thinking we'd have to DIY some of these difficult things out of a sense of not feeling we could find anyone as good as we could be with a little effort. I'm happy to do easy things on the cottage but things like the front elevation ought to be done by someone who knows what they're doing, likewise with structural decisions that I just don't feel qualified to make. But how exctingyou are getting your Julie back!

Juju - I think the costs are OK, if you accept that you're paying for a company with a nice office, and a lovely website etc etc - which always works out pricier than the single tradesman but you have some kind of guarantee in their reputation.

 

[JoceAndChris]

It's felt like a long time to wait since that Feb post but he's just finished and what wonderful filling and securing! He says there is no need to doubt its stability.

Replacement cornice run very nicely in situ:

 

[Penners]

Great job, and well done for saving it, Joce!

It looks as though you've found a good man, there.

 

[Schoolmarm]

Wow you are so lucky to have found them. It looks fantastic.