Sealing wall for papering ?

[Moo]

What a lovely idea!
Unfortunately, although we get on extremely well with James, our neighbourly relationship doesn't go quite that far.

But I shall be very hurt indeed if you inspect his stock and don't pop in for some light refreshment and gossip while you're at it.

xxx M

 

[Penners]

pop in for some light refreshment and gossip

Good idea! Remembering to take your papering brush, P. :wink:

 

[AMc]

Back from the mists of time...

For lining paper, I've used this stuff - I think it's brilliant, I wouldn't go back to "ordinary" lining paper of any weight.
http://www.decoratingdirect.co.uk/viewprod/m/MAVNWLPV/

Having rearranged the newish partitions walls upstairs some of the lovely polystyrene coving was removed. There is no sensible way to make good and we don't like it so it's coming down. The ceiling and walls have been lined with paper and paint up to the coving. Underneath is gypsm over the walls or skimmed over newish plasterboard. I'm resolved to sanding back the coving adhesive which is not going to be nice I'll have to do it either way.

- Best case is that that the horrible coving and lining paper can come off to a finish suitable to paint directly onto.

- Worst case I will need to reline the ceiling and walls before I can paint.

Ever the optimist, I'm planning for the worst and my first foray into the wonderful world of wallpapering

Is this non-woven stuff really worth the difference in price?
£65.38 for 13.75m2 vs. £2.75 for 5.6m2 of 1400 grade paper from the same site - by my maths that's £4.76 a m2 vs £0.48 per m2

I'm not completely opposed to spending more but that's a heck of a difference. Is it really 10 times as good or will I be OK with the cheaper stuff?

 

[Pford75]

Is this non-woven stuff really worth the difference in price?
£65.38 for 13.75m2 vs. £2.75 for 5.6m2 of 1400 grade paper from the same site - by my maths that's £4.76 a m2 vs £0.48 per m2

I'm not completely opposed to spending more but that's a heck of a difference. Is it really 10 times as good or will I be OK with the cheaper stuff?

Having used it in several rooms now, my view is that it is worth the price difference. All told, the actual price difference will be a few pounds (unless your room is huge!). If you are an expert decorator, then perhaps the same effects can be acheived with regular lining paper...but for me, the quality of the end result and the time saved hanging it makes the price difference worthwhile.

I managed to paper an entire room (with multiple windows, doors, chimney breast, fiddly alcoves etc.) in only 4 hours and the end result looked quite professional (even if I say so myself). Regular lining paper needs to be soaked before hanging and this can be problematic if you have 14ft drops like I have. Whereas with the non-woven, you paste the wall (personally I have found much better results from the ready mixed adhesive than the powder based version).

Once regular lining paper has been soaked, it can be very tricky to cut (especially around fiddly bits)...whereas the non woven stays quite 'card like' and is easy to cot with a sharp blade (although it does blunt them fairly quickly....worth investing in a few snap-off blades and renewing the blade regularly).

As Feltwell says....it can save a room from needing to be replastered....so in comparison, it is cheap.

 

[Feltwell]

Is this non-woven stuff really worth the difference in price?
£65.38 for 13.75m2 vs. £2.75 for 5.6m2 of 1400 grade paper from the same site - by my maths that's £4.76 a m2 vs £0.48 per m2

I'm not completely opposed to spending more but that's a heck of a difference. Is it really 10 times as good or will I be OK with the cheaper stuff?

I wouldn't use your maths! :wink:

For Vario Plus non-woven, £65.38 is for 2 rolls, each of which is 0.75 * 25m - which works out to £1.74 per m2.

Their 1400 grade paper is 0.56 x 10.05m, with a single roll costing £2.75 - which is, as you say, £0.49 per m2, a bit cheaper if you buy a 16 roll pack.

Still a big difference, but one which I would say is well worth paying - for all the reasons PFord says. I've done a ceiling with this stuff, it was easy - no way would I do that with ordinary lining paper!

Professional decorators often hang lining paper horizontally, which must be quite hard. Having had a previous house decorated by a professional - a good one - after I'd moved out, in order to get it on the market quickly, I'd still say you get a better result with the Vario paper.

If you wanted a middle ground, that same site sells another brand of non-woven paper - Trend - although they do say "In comparison with 'Vario Plus', our other non-woven lining paper, Trend lining paper is a lighter grade non-woven, not as strong, and does not provide Vario Plus's super smooth clean plaster like finish." The Trend paper works out to be £1.06 per m2.

Personally, I would use the Vario every time, I was that impressed with it.

 

[Feltwell]

[personally I have found much better results from the ready mixed adhesive than the powder based version

What did you find the difference to be Pford? I've always been too mean to buy ready-mixed versions of anything ! I usually whisk up the crystal-type adhesive using a paddle on a power drill.

 

[Pford75]

That's what I used previously...then when I had some proper papering to do (fairly pricey rolls)...they recommended this ready mixed. I used it for that job and was converted.

It seems much less watery, so is less prone to being sucked into the wall. It seems to allow longer for repositioning the drops. It's easier to use on a ceiling (doesn't drip as much). The paper doesn't go soft as quickly (probably due to less water) and is easier to cut as a result. Finally, the seams seem to stay down better.

But the other stuff is fine and I've used it with success.

 

[Nigel Watts]

What does non-woven mean? The process to make cheap machine-made paper involves nothing which could be described as weaving. Pulp is extruded from a vat and drawn out using a conveyor belt. This causes the fibres to line up more in the direction of travel of the belt giving the paper a grain,with more strength in one direction than another. Hand made paper by contrast is made by drawing a mesh up through the pulp. The result is fibres distributed randomly, giving greater strength.

 

[Feltwell]

What does non-woven mean?

I've no idea, and the manufacturer's website doesn't say either. It's very strong stuff though, much more so than normal lining paper, and it reacts very differently to moisture (i.e. paste) - there must be a significant fundamental difference in how it is manufactured.

What I did find on the manufacturer's website is that they were also the inventors of woodchip..... :evil:

 

[AMc]

I wouldn't use your maths! :wink:

No, I wouldn't either - some sort of mental short circuit that made 18.75 into 13.75 AND missed the 2 rolls - how confidence inspiring

I do have a bit to do. The first bit being the hall 1.5m x 4.5m starting with the ceiling, then about 3.5m2 of walls. I don't propose to do the walls I've just plastered. At least my ceilings are low enough that I can work on them without climbing on anything.

The next room to be done is a spare bedroom 4.5m x 4m and 2.3m high with 2 large windows, 2 doors and a fireplace to fiddle about with.

Again assuming I can multiply (?) that's 11m2 ish in the hall and 40m2 ish (less 9m2 of windows and doors) still just over one pack of 2 rolls - ggggrrrrr!
A bot of googling suggests that http://www.transtools.co.uk are the only other place that sell it but at least they do single rolls - still £90 for the paper alone.

All of this fills me with a cold dread. I'm not a great decorator at the best of times being both fussy and impatient.

Looks like I'll have to read up a bit more about hanging lining paper as I wasn't really aware of soaking etc. presumably this means leaving the paste to soak in for a bit not putting it in a bucket of water

I've also stumbled across this product Wallrock thermal liner which sounds a little too good to be true but as I'll be stripping a North and West facing solid wall covered in gypsm it might be worth a look?

 

[Nigel Watts]

I have been doing some research. Paper, it seems, is generally either laid or wove (but never woven, except by recycling nuts who like to make underwear and other useful items from weaving together strips of old newspaper).

Earlier handmade papers have distinct horizontal ridges caused by the mesh which was drawn through the the pulp in forming the paper. In the mid 18th C a finer mesh was developed by weaving brass wire. This gave a smoother surface. When paper making machines were introduced in the early 19th C the finer woven mesh tended to be used. Machine-made "laid" papers are made by subsequently pressing them to look like old laid papers, even though they are essentially made first using a wove mesh.

In general therefore, a non-wove paper could be said to be hand made, or at least not made using a conventional machine process.

 

[AMc]

I've steeled myself to the price on the basis that I'll forget the few quid difference either during the job if it makes it easier or afterwards of the finish is better.
I'm kidding myself that Transtool is slightly cheaper so I'm saving money
As I'm going for an easier life - which brand of ready mixed adhesive have people used with this paper with success?
I'm looking for blatant promotion of a particular brand here so don't be shy !

 

[Pford75]

As I'm going for an easier life - which brand of ready mixed adhesive have people used with this paper with success?

First used GP & J Baker when papering our dining room (as recommended by them when hanging their paper)...very thick...quite pricey, but didn't want to risk anything else

More recently I used MAV wallrock readymix (which they claim is specially designed for wallrock products)

http://www.transtools.co.uk/store/p...ste-ready-mixed-wallpaper-adhesive-4-5kg.html

Both were good.

 

[AMc]

BOTHER - I ordered the paper assuming I could pick up the adhesive in a local shed. Went in quickly yesterday evening to be confronted with a bewlidering array of packets and tubs none of which specifically mentioned non woven material and all of which claimed to be able to do everything under the sun - never mind the massive variation in price!
Then I read this and as I was dialing the number to try and amend the order I got an order complete email! plus Transtools are out of the larger size of Wallrock.

Perhaps I've over egging this whole thing and should just buy a large packet of mix it yourself polycel...

 

[AMc]

I've diverted myself by painting other bits of the hall which are part of the same job but simply require the application of Travis Perkins white emulsion or Farrow & Ball - Teresa's Green.
When the paper arrives I guess I'll have to tackle the rest of this job though.

Any further recommendations on paste or advice on "pasting the wall" techniques would still be welcome.

 

[JoceAndChris]

We have wallpapered a number of rooms and always just use the cheapy lining paper, and mix it yourself Solvite underneath the lovely thick handmade F n B wallpaper. I have to say we got pretty confident and good at wallpapering, I'm pleased with the results, I dont mind the dings and dints on the old walls showing through the paper and think it matches the very old and worn look of everything here. For pasting, you need a strong light and not to rush too much. We always give 4-6 minutes soaking time on each sheet. The smoothing and erasing of bubbles can appear initially scary but rest assured a lot of blemishes disappear 24 hours later.

For my Print Room I got through around ten tubs of Solvite ready mix border adhesive. When I made a mistake, and a section had to come down, it was hell to remove and took off many layers of paint behind - a testament to its power! This is good on troublesome edges that come away, applied with a weeny brush.

After reading this thread I might branch out into the mire expensive liners and pastes - not sure - the dining room budget doesn't exist yet so I've had to pause the whole thing.

Good luck and let us know how you get on!

 

[JoceAndChris]

Ooh and make sure you have everything to hand - two buckets of hot soapy water and clean cloths, one to wipe down the edges of the pasting table and one to wipe your seams.

The wallpaper roller thingy, the big plastic smoother, a pile of clean hankies and the big dry brush, then of course your big pasting brush and scissors, and sharp knife. I use one of those plastic clip thingies to secure the end of the cut length to the end of the pasting table, then if my drop is longer than my pasting table arrange an old chair at the correct distance from the bottom of it to keep your roll off the floor for cutting. The pasting is all done on the table, and if the drop is longer than the table you carefully concertina up ( very loosely) the top end, and let it flop over the edge of the table. Allowing 10-15 cm, on each drop, as an extra, is sensible, and means you're cutting your bottom edge in situ. We don't guess the soaking time, but use the timer on the mobile to measure it properly. That waiting time can be used for wiping down of tools, or washing of hands and folding of laundry so you don't get bored and start rushing.

One more tip - a few lengths a day is plenty if you have a busy working life - you get a better job by breaking it up.

Apologies if all that's just stating the bleedin' obvious, it's just how we do it and there's no definitive way.

 

[Feltwell]

BOTHER - I ordered the paper assuming I could pick up the adhesive in a local shed. Went in quickly yesterday evening to be confronted with a bewlidering array of packets and tubs none of which specifically mentioned non woven material and all of which claimed to be able to do everything under the sun - never mind the massive variation in price!
Then I read this and as I was dialing the number to try and amend the order I got an order complete email! plus Transtools are out of the larger size of Wallrock.

Perhaps I've over egging this whole thing and should just buy a large packet of mix it yourself polycel...

I just stuck the non-woven stuff up with the usual Solvite packet mix. I can't comment on if the ready-mixed stuff is better as I haven't used it, but I was quite happy with the Solvite and the paper hasn't fallen off the wall in the following 3 years!

 

[AMc]

Thanks again that's good to know and its nice to have a bit more detail on the process.
I'm mostly lining over a recent skim so I'm probably going over the top on the posh lining paper but as I'm painting it it can't hurt to have a nice surface.

I've read a bit, utubed a bit and the more I looked into it the more panicked I became - all this faffing about with going around corners and at the edges.
Wish I had an easy bit to begin with, but its a weird ceiling with smoke alarms and loft hatches to negotiate then walls with doors, uplighters and an arch.
Suspect a bit of a baptism of fire!

Feltwell - did you paste the paper or the wall? Pasting the wall sounds like it might be simpler as I've got all these odd shapes and corners but I'm not finding a lot of guidance on how to do it.

 

[Moo]

My grandad (d.o.b.1881) always pasted the wall as well as the paper, as a matter of routine.