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Gareth Hughes
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Parker and Unwin more than eitherandrew gayton said:
andrew gayton
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although the list could go on.
parkview094
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Oh my - now I'm well and truely confused!
No idea who the architect of our house is. Sadly I've drawn a complete blank at finding out any of the history of the house besides the fact it was likely built between 1911 and 1912. The "Romford Garden Suburb" exhibition (at the same time) attracted many prominent arts and crafts architects, including Bailey Scott, although our house wasn't built as part of the exhibition so very little to go on..
So, let me take you on a tour of our street..
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=51...zMH5ofjcyLjV+cH40LjN+cGlkfjUwODImYXBwPTUwODI=
Here we have the same house pebbledashed and painted with brown windows.
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=51...xfjAuMjAwNjY4Jmx2bD0xNSZzdHk9eCZhcHA9NTA4Mg==
Another pebbledashed example with replacement windows..
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=51...23.1~p~8.1~pid~5082&app=5082&eo=0&FORM=LMLTCC
This seems to be the most original - certainly with the original windows. It's not very clear from bing maps, but this house has some form of 'swirl effect' on the render. I'm guessing this isn't original..
Having spent some time staring at the house opposite with the pebbledash effect: The 'ears' (for want of a better word' seem to be a prominent architectural feature. I'm wondering if the smooth render shows these off best with a pebbledash or roughcast 'softening' them a little?
With regards to white windows against a white render.. this house is a few doors down:
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=51...30~h~86.5~p~2.6~pid~5082&app=5082&FORM=LMLTCC
..and has the original windows in white. With the red tile cills, I'm thinking white on white doesn't actually look as bad as I agree it sounds? Although the photo of our house (although B&W) from the 70s has white windows..?
M
No idea who the architect of our house is. Sadly I've drawn a complete blank at finding out any of the history of the house besides the fact it was likely built between 1911 and 1912. The "Romford Garden Suburb" exhibition (at the same time) attracted many prominent arts and crafts architects, including Bailey Scott, although our house wasn't built as part of the exhibition so very little to go on..
So, let me take you on a tour of our street..
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=51...zMH5ofjcyLjV+cH40LjN+cGlkfjUwODImYXBwPTUwODI=
Here we have the same house pebbledashed and painted with brown windows.
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=51...xfjAuMjAwNjY4Jmx2bD0xNSZzdHk9eCZhcHA9NTA4Mg==
Another pebbledashed example with replacement windows..
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=51...23.1~p~8.1~pid~5082&app=5082&eo=0&FORM=LMLTCC
This seems to be the most original - certainly with the original windows. It's not very clear from bing maps, but this house has some form of 'swirl effect' on the render. I'm guessing this isn't original..
Having spent some time staring at the house opposite with the pebbledash effect: The 'ears' (for want of a better word' seem to be a prominent architectural feature. I'm wondering if the smooth render shows these off best with a pebbledash or roughcast 'softening' them a little?
With regards to white windows against a white render.. this house is a few doors down:
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=51...30~h~86.5~p~2.6~pid~5082&app=5082&FORM=LMLTCC
..and has the original windows in white. With the red tile cills, I'm thinking white on white doesn't actually look as bad as I agree it sounds? Although the photo of our house (although B&W) from the 70s has white windows..?
M
parkview094
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andrew gayton said:
An excellent question indeed! although I confess I have absolutely no idea what you're asking :? :lol:
plasticpigeon
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The "ears" you mention earlier?
parkview094
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Oh I'm finding this all very confusing..
So I've started gathering a few quotes again for re-rendering the house.. 3 folk have been round so far. 2 General builders who have both advised re-rendering in cement and a specialist lime renderer who, surprise surprise, has said this absolutely has to be rendered in lime.
The Lime plasterer argues that there is some evidence of damp behind the cement since the existing render is blistering. The cement renderers argue that this is just 'rising damp' because the old slate damp proof course has been breached by the previous bodged render. The lime plasterer agrees that this is contributing to the problem and has suggested not rendering beneath the DPC, but instead just repointing the brickwork.
Everyone seems to be recommending their own trade.
There is no evidence of any damp on the internal walls. One room has a musty damp smell if closed up, but I've (maybe wrongly) put this down to the open chimney since there's no staining, mould or plaster damage on the inside of the walls.
I'm still awaiting the quote for the lime, but is would this be a safer bet, just to hedge our bets?
So I've started gathering a few quotes again for re-rendering the house.. 3 folk have been round so far. 2 General builders who have both advised re-rendering in cement and a specialist lime renderer who, surprise surprise, has said this absolutely has to be rendered in lime.
The Lime plasterer argues that there is some evidence of damp behind the cement since the existing render is blistering. The cement renderers argue that this is just 'rising damp' because the old slate damp proof course has been breached by the previous bodged render. The lime plasterer agrees that this is contributing to the problem and has suggested not rendering beneath the DPC, but instead just repointing the brickwork.
Everyone seems to be recommending their own trade.
There is no evidence of any damp on the internal walls. One room has a musty damp smell if closed up, but I've (maybe wrongly) put this down to the open chimney since there's no staining, mould or plaster damage on the inside of the walls.
I'm still awaiting the quote for the lime, but is would this be a safer bet, just to hedge our bets?
andrew gayton
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if the property has cavity walling and the render is properly detailed, then an opc based render will work ok as it is the cavity that deals with any damp issues. This of course may be complicated via a cavity that is breached via mortar spoil on ties or certain retrofit cavity insulation/s where the cavity may be less effective. So, if the walling is cavity and there has been a retrofit insulation installation, then it may be best to deal with the walling as if it were solid and reliant on overall permeability and use a lime or composite render.
parkview094
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..definitely solid walls..
andrew gayton
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permeable render required!
parkview094
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We've got our first quote for removing the current render and replacing with Lime. Surprisingly, it wasn't as bad as I'd hoped - only slightly more than quotes we'd received for Cement render. Couple of questions again if I may..
We are looking to put an extension on the rear of the house which will be build in standard blockwork with a cavity. Can we just lime render the whole lot, or would the new extension need to be treated differently somehow?
The quote for 'removing' the current Cement render was £3000+scaffolding. This seems a lot to me (probably naievly). Is this something we could likely have a go at ourselves? How long could we leave the house in an un-rendered state?
As always - many thanks in advance for your thoughts!
We are looking to put an extension on the rear of the house which will be build in standard blockwork with a cavity. Can we just lime render the whole lot, or would the new extension need to be treated differently somehow?
The quote for 'removing' the current Cement render was £3000+scaffolding. This seems a lot to me (probably naievly). Is this something we could likely have a go at ourselves? How long could we leave the house in an un-rendered state?
As always - many thanks in advance for your thoughts!
Zebra
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parkview094 said:
I'm just replying as a reminder to myself to reply in more detail to this. There are ways of lime rendering onto modern blockwork, I have done a fair bit of research into it, and have done exactly that, will reply in more detail later......
And yes it is absolutely feasible to remove your own cement render. Try a bit and have a go. How long you can leave it unrendered depends what is underneath - remind us, without rereading the entire thread, what is it underneath - brickwork?
Zebra
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Right. I asked this question myself on here a while ago, and got this answer
http://periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13348
The link referred to gives the recommended mixes for applying over medium density blockwork. Whether that's the same as what you'd use on the old parts of the house depends on what the old house is built in. It may be that NHL3.5 is too hard for your old brickwork.
It would be feasible to use different mixes on different parts of the house, as long as the style of rendering was the same, and if you used the same paint/limewash on it. You'd never know.
What I ended up doing on my new blockwork extension was rather complicated, because I wanted to use a particular through-coloured top coat render to match another part of the house which had woodfibre external wall insulation.
The alternative, if I hadn't wanted to use that particular through-coloured top coat, would have been to render the blockwork extension in NHL3.5 as that link above recommends, and simply paint or limewash it to match. I tried a test patch on the bare unrendered blockwork, NHL3.5 mixed with normal plastering sand I think it was. It didn't crack, looked fine, and when I came to take it off again, it was stuck good and proper!
In my opinion, it's the labour that costs you the money with rerendering. The materials are expensive, obviously, but unless you're using quite fancy products it's the labour that costs you the money, so you might as well use the product you want.
Rather than let tradespeople recommend their own trade, as you describe above, I've found it preferable to do my own research, find out what I want to use, and then find someone to stick it on for me. For my rendering I found some young chaps who had done lime before, but weren't specialist lime plasterers. They'd certainly never used the products I wanted to use. Nobody had. But they were very happy to learn something new, and very happy to do whatever I wanted, because I was willing to be responsible for the outcome!
http://periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13348
The link referred to gives the recommended mixes for applying over medium density blockwork. Whether that's the same as what you'd use on the old parts of the house depends on what the old house is built in. It may be that NHL3.5 is too hard for your old brickwork.
It would be feasible to use different mixes on different parts of the house, as long as the style of rendering was the same, and if you used the same paint/limewash on it. You'd never know.
What I ended up doing on my new blockwork extension was rather complicated, because I wanted to use a particular through-coloured top coat render to match another part of the house which had woodfibre external wall insulation.
The alternative, if I hadn't wanted to use that particular through-coloured top coat, would have been to render the blockwork extension in NHL3.5 as that link above recommends, and simply paint or limewash it to match. I tried a test patch on the bare unrendered blockwork, NHL3.5 mixed with normal plastering sand I think it was. It didn't crack, looked fine, and when I came to take it off again, it was stuck good and proper!
In my opinion, it's the labour that costs you the money with rerendering. The materials are expensive, obviously, but unless you're using quite fancy products it's the labour that costs you the money, so you might as well use the product you want.
Rather than let tradespeople recommend their own trade, as you describe above, I've found it preferable to do my own research, find out what I want to use, and then find someone to stick it on for me. For my rendering I found some young chaps who had done lime before, but weren't specialist lime plasterers. They'd certainly never used the products I wanted to use. Nobody had. But they were very happy to learn something new, and very happy to do whatever I wanted, because I was willing to be responsible for the outcome!
plasticpigeon
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Have you decided on a style, ie roughcast or smooth. Most people thought roughcast would suit your property better but can it be achieved with lime???? Your house looks pretty big, I'm surprised you need an extension!!!!
JoceAndChris
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In a lot of cases rubble stone ( and brick) houses have the render picked off and are left bare forever - I don't agree with it, but it's a choice some make. Our house has had large bare patches for 4 yrs and is fine. The stone walls are very thick though.
3k plus your scaffolding sounds cheap, my quote is 25k to remove cement render and re render in lime ( with one of Britain's most reputed conservation teams and leading specialists in historic plasterwork) It does depend on the details of the job - our cement render is like concrete, up to 2 inches thick. And the lime work is very difficult as the building is all sharp, formal, angles which call for specialist techniques. The cement needs a large SDS drill to get off. I've seen other cement renders that are very thin and flimsy and easy to remove by comparison - and if yours is like that, I'd be tempted to have a go myself, though please be aware how painstaking, messy and laborious this type of work is.
Best wishes, Joce
3k plus your scaffolding sounds cheap, my quote is 25k to remove cement render and re render in lime ( with one of Britain's most reputed conservation teams and leading specialists in historic plasterwork) It does depend on the details of the job - our cement render is like concrete, up to 2 inches thick. And the lime work is very difficult as the building is all sharp, formal, angles which call for specialist techniques. The cement needs a large SDS drill to get off. I've seen other cement renders that are very thin and flimsy and easy to remove by comparison - and if yours is like that, I'd be tempted to have a go myself, though please be aware how painstaking, messy and laborious this type of work is.
Best wishes, Joce
parkview094
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plasticpigeon said:
I think we're going to go with a new 'smooth' render. Our primary rational being that this is because it's what it's got at the moment and hence wont need conservation area approval. The Lime renderer did ask about a roughcast, so I presume it can be achieved in Lime.. I have to say, we're still on the fence with what finish to apply. Smooth seems the 'easy' option, but I'm not sure I've ever seen a smooth finish that has weathered well over time.. oh the decisions!
With regards to size, it's actually a very deceptive house - plenty of rooms, but none that big. We're just looking to enlarge the kitchen and create a new master bedroom with en-suite. Plans are here if anyone's interested: http://planning.havering.gov.uk/pls...W?p_arg_names=reference&p_arg_values=P1000.13
parkview094
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JoceAndChris said:
Ah no, the £3k + Scaffolding was just for the removal of the existing render. New render to be applied is £15k (on top). Not in East Anglia/Essex are you? - trying to find a comparative lime quote..
JoceAndChris
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I did get what you meant with your quote, I just wasn't very clear in my reply. So 18k then, plus scaffolding - I think that's about right. Your house looks bigger than mine as well. I'm having my render scored to resemble ashlar blocks though which bumps up the price.
The company I use are in Grantham, where I live. They go all over the country but they are mainly G1 repair - the plasterer did Chatsworth House - but they might quote for you if they're quiet. Their opinion is worth a lot- you won't find a more knowledgeable person on building materials and styles than Dr Carrington.
http://www.skillington.org/
The company I use are in Grantham, where I live. They go all over the country but they are mainly G1 repair - the plasterer did Chatsworth House - but they might quote for you if they're quiet. Their opinion is worth a lot- you won't find a more knowledgeable person on building materials and styles than Dr Carrington.
http://www.skillington.org/
parkview094
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Well well well.. another twist and turn in the story of Render..
Whilst perusing rightmove, I came across a local 'exhibition' house which has been extended and altered by the new owners. Giving into curiosity, I thought I'd have a look through the original exhibition catalogue to see exactly what they'd done. Flicking past the "Balgores Lane" section - I noticed..
...which seems to suggest the other houses built around the time of ours were all cement roughcast rendered. Indeed some even mention "hollow walls". I'd always taken it on the value of our original survey that we had solid walls - but now I wonder.
Since all the brickwork is covered with Render, I'm guessing I'm going to have to drill a hole to figure out whether we really have cavity walls or not?
Assuming not - if the house was originally cement rendered, could we stick with cement or would this likely have just been a bad decision at the time?
Whilst perusing rightmove, I came across a local 'exhibition' house which has been extended and altered by the new owners. Giving into curiosity, I thought I'd have a look through the original exhibition catalogue to see exactly what they'd done. Flicking past the "Balgores Lane" section - I noticed..
...which seems to suggest the other houses built around the time of ours were all cement roughcast rendered. Indeed some even mention "hollow walls". I'd always taken it on the value of our original survey that we had solid walls - but now I wonder.
Since all the brickwork is covered with Render, I'm guessing I'm going to have to drill a hole to figure out whether we really have cavity walls or not?
Assuming not - if the house was originally cement rendered, could we stick with cement or would this likely have just been a bad decision at the time?
plasticpigeon
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What a find! I thought it would be roughcast, I think that would look better than flat. Looks like perhaps your windows were white as well!!! I can't comment much on the render as I really don't know enough. Logically I'd have thought that if the bricks are hard and vitrified and the mortar used is cement, then cement render would be ok. If the bricks are softer and more porous and the mortar used is lime, then lime would be better as water that may get in through small cracks in the render will be able to evaporate out through the render.