Prince Charles and the SPAB...

[Lime]

I wish to agree with

This is not the heart of the problem and everyone knows it - the real crux of the matter is the schism between nem-ites and non nem-ites: a schism that was there long before I ever joined this forum.

The amount she contributed was extraordinary, literally thousands of knowledgeable, researched posts and links. They are now missing, the tone of the forum has changed as someone like that is completely unique and irreplacable. I really don't want to get into the whole debate of whether she should have been expelled in the way she was, whether her crimes outweighed her contribution, but it's left a very bitter taste and a tide of anger from herself and her friends. I don't even need to say this, we all know it.

That this schism should carry away expertise is indeed incredibly sad. Gervase will be missed very, very much, by me and everyone I'm sure.

Also, I'd like to add, there are many people who were/are in two minds about "the problem".

Self-criticism is the most difficult form of criticism.


I agree with this too.

I only read 10% of the posts

However I will continue to answer posts that I think I know something about and which are not swamped in chat and totally non-related items.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Well, I'll take 3/4 of my "contributions" and desire for community elsewhere then, I know when I'm beaten! Without Nem, without the chitter chatter that's replaced Nem, the forum will be a very quiet place I think.

If anyone would like just to chat without all this judgement I can be found at joce@chris-needham.co.uk, or on Facebook as Rosamund Vincy.

xxx

 

[Lime]

Well, I'll take 3/4 of my "contributions" and desire for community elsewhere then, I know when I'm beaten! Without Nem, without the chitter chatter that's replaced Nem, the forum will be a very quiet place I think.

If anyone would like just to chat without all this judgement I can be found at joce@chris-needham.co.uk, or on Facebook as Rosamund Vincy.

xxx

That is not what I'm saying nor what I want.
It's not a fight.
I understand what you are saying.
A fundamental problem is that if this forum is used solely for period property related work then, after a while, everything that could be said has been said.
Chat and spurious comment are bound to dominate.

This comment made by me

However I will continue to answer posts that I think I know something about and which are not swamped in chat and totally non-related items.

relates to lack of time and other things to do elsewhere.

 

[Flyfisher]

I agree with Lime. Much of the forum could be replaced with a FAQ but where's the community in that? And, like any community, virtual or real, people join and people leave, for all sorts of reasons. It's a natural process. But without a constant turnover of posts any forum will wither and die so a bit of light-hearted banter serves a valuable purpose in keeping the forum ready for action when someone posts about a specific problem.

I also agree with Joce about the Nem/Non-Nem schism which, as far as I can tell, seems to go back to the dawn of the forum, which is a great shame because no-one disputes her knowledge and expertise but . . . well, who could possibly condone her behaviour this week?

I guess it all comes down to tolerance. Of course there are threads of no personal interest, in which case I don't read them, but it's hardly reasonable to castigate the poster for starting such a thread. I'm sure many here would consider the 'green' topics that crop up periodically to be out of place on PPUK, but it's hardly a reason to get upset; just don't read them. I confess to being drawn into such topics because it's something that interests me and because it's a pleasure to be able to discuss the issues with someone as knowledgeable as Biff without descending into a slanging match, even when we hold differing views.

But Lime summarised it far better than all the above waffle: "It's not a fight".

So, don't leave Joce. You're not beaten and shouldn't let yourself be. We need more peace and love, not less.

 

[Cloudscape]

I'm glad the subject of Nem's been brought up. I apologise in advance for talking about someone who isn't here to reply.

I've previously only owned Victorian and Edwardian flats and one gerry-built Victorian house that's held up by (what was it?) "unfeasibly strong wallpaper paste". I grew up in a modern house that my Dad built. I watched him work and learned a lot about building. I was able to put a lot of this knowledge into practice.

Buying the house I live in now - thick stone walls, wonky roof, electric cables dangling everywhere, lethal hot-water system based on a back burner, and tons of history (some of it evident in what's been done to the place)... I realized that I didn't know anything about houses at all. I knew I loved this house, which I fought for and only got because of a fluke with property prices in Manchester. But having got it, the learning curve started.

It was this forum, and particularly Nem, who set me on the right road. I'm really grateful to Nem. I've read all the technical stuff, all the aesthetic stuff, all the importance stuff (the irreplaceable history), and all the silly stuff. I'm a quick learner (when I want to know something), and I've had to be quick to get some essential stuff done to the house before the money ran out. If I'd listened to friends, and local acquaintances and what some builders have said, I'd have possibly made some pretty dire mistakes.

I had no idea that class, and people's personal views on it, were so deep and so potentially damaging. This has really set me thinking. Class just isn't something I normally do think about. I realise that it might even be at the core of some factioning in the forum I moderate. This had never occurred to me.

In life, there are all kinds of snobs, and all kinds of people who think they, and their agendas, are more important than everyone else.

I really don't think Joce should be singled out - nor should you single yourself out, Joce. Gawd... this forum sometimes needs a bit of cheering up. I hear your comedy snobbery and take it as exactly that. To me, it's a welcome antidote to some of the grumpiness. And sometimes, the sheer size of the projects some of us have undertaken just feels a bit overwhelming and we need a break from it.

PPUK described this as a "vibrant community forum" on the front page. :?

I wish we could all just rub along together, stop judging each other and find a way to mix all the elements and types of people. It's like the village I live in - widely diverse people, some gossiping, some resentment, a few ancient battles still going on, but ultimately we all love the place and want the same thing. It keeps us together. This forum is potentially a brilliant place.

 

[Gervase]

I just find it slightly strange that Gervase finds it completely acceptable to express his own reverse snobbery in no uncertain terms, but the merest whiff of a right-wing view puts him in a hissy fit.

But each to their own.

Reverse snobbery? As Popeye would say, I yam what I yam, and don't do 'prolier than thou'. If 'passing off' is an aspiration, however, one should remember that a mark of good breeding in any walk of life is consideration for others.
I have no problem with right-wing views, but that thread degenerated into something that was most certainly not a political statement. If it was intended in an ironical sense then perhaps the iron should have been set for cashmere rather than canvas or the more offensive elements confined to the personal message facility.
And that's an end to my hissy fit. The toys are back in the pram and I shall toddle off and leave you in peace.

 

[Schoolmarm]

See now the one person who we REALLY need to stay is going.

I like the "extra curricular" chat. We always had it within serious threads.

There are lots ofthings I could get really argumentative over but keep it firmly zipped to keep my membership.


And I don't think my adoration of Ev spills over into how I interact with the antis. In fact it doesn't at all.

Actually who are they anyway?