Period first motors

[philpjuk100]

Grandson Dean with my current car,maybe his first car!. SWING IT DEAN!.

 

[tobydog]

Sadly no pictures of my first pride and joy but it was a 1969 Ford Cortina MkII 1600 Deluxe. Metallic bronze and lovely plastic seats. At some point it did manage to acquire a thin stripe down its side (actually looked quite good 8) ) and the hub caps came off to make it look sportier :roll: . Great car until rust finally took it from me. I remember accelerating hard away from a junction and nearly ended up in the back seat. The seat rails ripped a whole in the floor :shock: . It's odd how things change. In those days gone by the mechanicals were solid and the body work short lived but these days it seems to be the other way round. More things to go wrong and way too many compromises to comply with legislation. I have an Audi A3 now but I've had more parts replaced on this car than any of my others.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Almost everyone I know who has had an Audi has had a whole host of parts replaced, but usually it is because the mechanics don't really know what is wrong, so they change what they think is most likely. If that doesn't cure the problem then the next most likely is changed and so on, making a potentially very cheap and easy repair very laborious and expensive. It seems the vehicles are now too complex to be fixed by your average mechanic, and the on board diagnostics are certainly not fool proof.

 

[MatthewC]

My first car was a 1960 Mini well past its best, but my first motorbike was a Ducati!

 

[Moo]

you could gain entry into the car via the boot ... when you'd locked your keys inside.

- or when your keys were on their way to Spain in a boyfriend's luggage.
My lovely Heinkel bubble car had a soft-top that locked and unlocked by means of a simple lever, so all I had to do was slide my arm under the canvas and grab the handle. In those days it was no problem to climb in through the open roof.
Starting the engine was no problem - I simply substituted one of those Kirby-grip hairpins for the ignition key.

I, too, only had a motor-cycle licence. But it was possible to blank off reverse gear, so I drove it (in London) for three happy, and legal, years before taking the driving test.

Ah, happy days...

 

[Flyfisher]

In those days gone by the mechanicals were solid and the body work short lived but these days it seems to be the other way round. More things to go wrong and way too many compromises to comply with legislation. I have an Audi A3 now but I've had more parts replaced on this car than any of my others.

I think it's fair to say that modern cars are engineering masterpieces on the whole. No more 'running in' because of improved manufacturing tolerances, very few corrosion problems, vastly greater performance in every respect and very few modern cars are not capable of 100,000 with little more than an annual oil change and 200,000 miles is not uncommon.

But when something does go wrong it's no longer possible to get it fixed by the local blacksmith and even a main dealer can only swap out the broken part and, increasingly an entire subsystem, at vast expense compared to the actual faulty component.

I'm sure we all have examples, so I'll offer my 16 year old Saab 95 as an example. Not a spot of rust, 120,000 miles and only once broke down when the bearing of a belt-tensioning wheel seized causing the belt to overheat, though not actually break as old style fan belts were prone to do. About five years ago the alarm started to misbehave and go off for no apparent reason. I took it to the main dealer who plugged in their 'diagnostic computer', which prompted told them that the alarm sounder was faulty and would need replacing at a cost of £450 plus fitting +VAT - so best part of £600. When I got back up from the floor I politely declined their kind offer.

I checked on the web and found it was a common problem with 10 year old Saabs because the sounder unit has internal batteries so that it can still make a noise even when the main car battery is disconnected. These batteries are not rechargeable and have a lifetime of about 10 years. So I removed the sounder unit and opened it up and could see the two small LiON batteries. A quick check on the web and I bought two replacements for £6.50 each. I replaced the batteries, refitted the sounder unit and all was well.

A sign of our disposable times I suppose.

 

[Keith Bowman]

In those days gone by the mechanicals were solid and the body work short lived but these days it seems to be the other way round. More things to go wrong and way too many compromises to comply with legislation. I have an Audi A3 now but I've had more parts replaced on this car than any of my others.

......
But when something does go wrong it's no longer possible to get it fixed by the local blacksmith and even a main dealer can only swap out the broken part and, increasingly an entire subsystem, at vast expense compared to the actual faulty component........
I checked on the web and found it was a common problem...... A quick check on the web and I bought two replacements for £6.50 each. I replaced the batteries, refitted the sounder unit and all was well.

A sign of our disposable times I suppose.

Sounds more like the sign of a rip-off to me. If it's a common problem and the simple solution is easily found on the web, are we really expected to believe the main dealer is so computer illiterate that they don't know? It's not the only example - Renault Megane window winder switches are another.

 

[Penners]

it was possible to blank off reverse gear...

...but that did have its drawbacks.

When I was at school in my teens, we had an art master who had a front-entry bubble car (I think it may have been an Isetta) which had no reverse gear. Roughly once a term a group of boys would simply lift the thing off the ground and place it with its nose hard up against the art-block wall. So, the unfortunate teacher had a car with a front-entry door that couldn't be opened, and the handbrake hard on. Even if he could have got inside, the only way to reverse the thing away from wall was to release the handbrake and then scramble out, go around to the back and pull it.

We were adorable children.

 

[tobydog]

On a positive note (at least for me ) the majority of the expensive items failed during the original warranty. Wiper motor, fuel pump, water pump, main ECU board thingy. Since then it's the Exhaust Recirculation Value, main and secondary cooling fans, and several other small things I've either had fixed or can wait until I sell it :wink: . Some of the things that can wait are one of the headlamp motors, and a motor that drives a floor vent for the climate control. I had an ESP issue crop up that Audi wanted big money to fix but a specialist did it with a few clicks on a lap top.

Modern car ownership can be scary. On my first and early cars I used to fix pretty much everything that went wrong except the welding!!. Now, I daren't touch them.

 

[Penners]

I think it's fair to say that modern cars are engineering masterpieces

I quite agree, FF. When I think back to my early days of car ownership, there was barely a week went by without the car needing some sort of attention. An engine lasted 50,000 miles (if you were lucky) before it needed to be stripped down, rebored, the crankshaft reground and so on. The bodywork constantly needed to be attended to with Kingston Kurust, or some such potion, and then resprayed with an aerosol can. Door seals leaked, electrical connections corroded, choke cables broke, the timing or mixture went awry... it was endless. Services intervals were usually 3000 miles!

By comparison, today's cars are absolutely wonderful. They go on forever, an engine life of well over 100,000 miles is commonplace, roadside breakdowns are extremely rare, as is bodywork rust. They're luxurious and trouble-free. Well done, car engineers!

What's the betting I have a breakdown this afternoon?

 

[tobydog]

Feel pity though for those with masterpieces of diesel engineering called Dual Mass Flywheels and Diesel Particulate Filters . Thankfully I'm a petrolhead. The DPF is of special concern because as of next month, all diesel cars that were built with them will need to have them for the MOT. Thousands of people have had them removed when they failed and had the engine re-mapped. They are going to be stuffed. There is, however, as after, after, market that will now put back an empty canister because the DPF is a visual check only, assuming the car passes the emissions test. Technically illegal and who knows what trouble it will throw up in the event of an unrelated insurance claim .

 

[Keithj]

There's a lot of new stuff coming in the way of automotive regulations.

My little toy has a fault in the ECU that says the engine isn't feeling well. The local bloke's computer tells him that there's nothing wrong with the engine but that that the ECU thinks there is, and is not going to change its Japanese mind in a hurry. No problem - it's legal to drive and will pass any emissions etc test (just did).
However, from next autumn any fault in the warning lights (such as not lighting to test on startup, or staying on when they shouldn't) is an automatic MOT fail.

A new ECU, with fitting, is just short of £1,000 at a main dealer. Sometime this summer I'll visit a man I know...

Meanwhile, here's my first car (with the wrong wheels on!):

 

[Flyfisher]

Hmm. They've now crammed so much clever technology into car engines for all sorts of regulatory reasons that the complexity has moved away from the mechanical realm and into the wonderful world of computers and electronics. Some cars don't even use conventional switches for many things these days, they just send a 'command' over the in-car data network and the computer interprets the command accordingly. What's the point? Well, it removes the need for heavy duty wiring to all the switches and reduces the weight of the wiring loom for one thing and it also makes it easy to implement multiple actions for a single operation, e.g. select reverse gear and the computer can switch on the reversing lights AND the rear windscreen wiper if it happens to be raining (which it will know from the position of the main wiper switch or the rain sensor).

This is the sort of stuff beloved of programmers who can now devise all sorts of new functions and features. Unfortunately, if anything goes wrong with all this wonderful new technology and its myriad sensors and actuators then the chances of the local garage being able to do anything except swap out an expensive black box is almost nil.

As for 'Check Engine' lights, I've experienced that with FF junior's car. There was no apparent problem but we took it into the local garage for a diagnostic check and for £25 were told that one of the ignition coils was starting to fail as determined by the 'misfire count' stored in the computer memory. The misfires were so infrequent that they were completely undetectable and made no difference to the engine but had reached the magic number that was programmed to trigger the 'check engine' warning light.

If these sorts of things are going to become part of the MOT test then motoring is going to become even more expensive than it already is.

I'm learning to love my tractor more and more these days as, with the single exception of the starter motor, it has no electrics at all. Mind you, it's not that great for a 150 mile round trip in the pouring rain :lol:

 

[tobydog]

There's a lot of new stuff coming in the way of automotive regulations.

My little toy has a fault in the ECU that says the engine isn't feeling well. The local bloke's computer tells him that there's nothing wrong with the engine but that that the ECU thinks there is, and is not going to change its Japanese mind in a hurry. No problem - it's legal to drive and will pass any emissions etc test (just did).
However, from next autumn any fault in the warning lights (such as not lighting to test on startup, or staying on when they shouldn't) is an automatic MOT fail.

A new ECU, with fitting, is just short of £1,000 at a main dealer. Sometime this summer I'll visit a man I know...

Meanwhile, here's my first car (with the wrong wheels on!):

Keith - you may be okay. If the warning light is only associated with the engine management, and the car passes the emissions test, I don't believe this is a reason for failure. The MOT police appear to be looking for warning lights related to safety features / driver aids like the Electronic Stability Control / Programme, ABS, etc). I would be keen to know if anyone has heard differently.

 

[88v8]

Imho, electronics have no place in a car. All it needs to do is go, steer, and stop.

Spent the best part of a day last week sitting in a garage reception while they built a new stainless exhaust under my 1974 V8 Landy, most amused at the various 'voice of doom' conversations being conducted with customers whose cars had failed MOT due to the disfunction of unnecessary electronic gizmos, abs, power steering leaks, and "your emissions are all over the place" (a regular phrase gleefully ornamented with curlicues of £££ signs.)

Pleased to say that none of our three cars has any electronics, other than ignition, although our TR6 does have mechanical fuel injection which can have its moments. No abs, no airbags, no cats, no cruise control, no ecu, no climate control, no power steering, no, well, anything much.
They just go, steer, and stop, and I shall never buy any vehicle that purports to do anything else. :shock:

Ivor

 

[Baron de Gynes]

Here's mine, although I think I've told you this before

She's a 1962 Morris 1000 and, due to a slight malfunction on one of the moderns today, I took her to work.
Flat batteries have never stopper her; that's what the crank handle is for. Of course, she started on the button today just to show off...! Bless her.

 

[Feltwell]

Almost everyone I know who has had an Audi has had a whole host of parts replaced

I've had a few Audis in my time and have a rather nice one right now, they've needed the odd repair but haven't been noticeably worse than any other car. In fact the "family bus" - a Ford S-Max, which has a Volvo engine in it - has been more problematic, and it's all been on the engine, Volvo are supposed to be ultra-reliable!

Modern cars are very complicated but I fully agree with all the comments about reliability - the days of a car being completely knackered by 100,000 miles are long gone. How often do you hear of a modern car needing welding for the MOT? Anything made in the last 20 years seems to have much better rust protection. You never hear of a car needing a respray for purely cosmetic reasons (as opposed to accident repair) any more. Periodic work like decokes are a thing of the past. Even exhaust systems on modern cars seem to last forever, the last one I had to replace was on a 1980's Vauxhall Astra, and I don't buy new cars!

I do miss things being easy to fix myself. A head gasket went on an old car of mine and I was quite happy, as an inexperienced yoof, to get the Haynes manual out and change it - a job which I wouldn't dream of doing on either of our cars now. But the upside is that they very rarely go wrong and don't even need servicing very often, the Audi's special oil is expensive but it will do over 20,000 miles or over 2 years between services! £300 for a major service sounds a lot but when it's every 2 years it's not that bad.

The internet is a treasure trove of advice for fixing modern cars though, and like FF I've fixed the "unfixable" cheaply on several occasions now. £120 + VAT + then having to get it spray painted and fitted for a reversing sensor for the Audi? That would probably have ended up close to £300 all in. No thanks - Ebay turned up a secondhand sensor for £18 that was already the right colour, sent to me from Germany, and a good guide on the internet meant it took me under an hour to fit it.

The key is often finding a good independent garage. I'm lucky in having an excellent VW/Audi specialist nearby, who are both helpful and knowledgeable.

 

[Flyfisher]

Keith - you may be okay. If the warning light is only associated with the engine management, and the car passes the emissions test, I don't believe this is a reason for failure. The MOT police appear to be looking for warning lights related to safety features / driver aids like the Electronic Stability Control / Programme, ABS, etc). I would be keen to know if anyone has heard differently.

I wonder how much of this sort of thing is really a legal MOT requirement? It seems a bit harsh to fail something like the Electronic Stability System not working when it's not a legal requirement in the first place and can also be legitimately switched off by the driver if they so choose.

We had a VW golf once and it had a cut on the steering wheel padding resulting in a bit of it sticking out slightly from the wheel. The garage failed it during an MOT test and said I needed a new steering wheel. I asked to talk to the MOT inspector and he said the same thing. I asked him to show me the rule and he reluctantly went to get his test manual. The relevant chapter stated that there must be nothing sticking out beyond the circumference of the steering wheel. So I asked him if it would fail if I cut off the piece of padding and he said 'no'. So I looked at the service manager and asked him why he told me I needed a new steering wheel, but I can't remember what he mumbled in his embarassment. So, I went out to the car, pulled off the loose bit of padding and asked the MOT tester if that was OK. He said 'yes' and passed the car.

I never went back to that dealer again.

 

[jocelyn plummer]

Is that an Austin 7 Philipjuk?

 

[philpjuk100]

Yes it is based on a 1930 seven,only had it for a few years but it makes me feel a traitor!.I come from a Morris owning family,my dad owned Morrisses from as far back as I can remember and I still have the 1932 minor I bought as an apprentice in the 60s but it needed yet another rebuild so I aquired the austin to use during the rebuild,and yes my dad was correct,the morris has better brakes/handling/ride and performance so maybe it would make a good "first car" for Dean (or maybe not "you can`t send the lad up in a crate like that!)