Period Drainage

[malcolm]

Most of the sinks in the house empty into a single hopper outside the kitchen which is currently blocked. The hopper is concrete so might not be all that period, however there is a cast iron hopper which drains into it from the first floor so there must be some age. From the position of the drain I would guess an age range between 1830 and 1910 for the ceramic drain itself.

The problem is the drain has a U bend and then continues towards a sewer pipe about 2m away. The blockage is past the U bend. There is a yard drain about 2m on the other side of the sewer which is also blocked. I would have expected to find a convenient inspection cover where the two meet the sewer but there is none, and it is awfully difficult to rod around a U bend especially when the chief suspect for the problem is a tree.

Did they not bother putting inspection chambers in back then and how did they clear the drains? Or is it likely I might find one by chipping off a little concrete from the yard? I think I will have to do some digging whatever happens to rod the drains and insert an inspection chamber but this isn't the ideal time of year for doing that.

 

[Flyfisher]

Do you have a pressure washer? I didn't, but after some similar drain problems I do now, along with one of these: http://www.wickes.co.uk/Karcher-Drain-Cleaning-Kit/p/104106

Tackle the blockage from the downstream end first if you can. The backward-firing water jets propel the hose into the blockage and also wash away the disturbed material. The pipe is quite thin and flexible and will usually travel around u-bends, though probably not through bottle-type traps.

Alternatively, I've had some success with just a standard hosepipe - it depends on the nature of the blockage.

Having said all that, if the chief suspect is a tree then even if you manage to clear a way through a broken pipe it may only be a temporary solution. I had a problem with our septic tank pipe a couple of years ago, which kept blocking. I could pressure-wash it clear to the point where water would flow through ok but it wasn't long before, er, 'solids' would block it again. I knew the only real solution was to replace the pipe and upon digging down to expose it there was a section full of fine tree roots acting as a 'mesh' through which only water would flow. I'm hoping the replacement plastic pipe will see me out with no further blockages!

 

[malcolm]

Thanks, it might be worth adding that to my drain unblocking tool collection as if nothing else it might speed up the unblocking further up the system that needs doing on a yearly basis. The reviews seem positive, though they were positive for the unblocker I bought last week http://www.screwfix.com/p/drain-unblocker/11325 which coils into a tangled mess in 4 inch pipe. There isn't access from downstream unfortunately.

I don't know what the blockage is but found some tree root in the yard drain so I wouldn't be surprised if I find tree. My earlier attempts do seem to have allowed water to move a bit so hopefully a bit more fiddling will allow me to put off fixing the problem for a little longer.

 

[Penners]

it might be worth adding that to my drain unblocking tool collection

In my experience, most people prefer to collect things like stamps, marbles, autographs, concert programmes and suchlike. But... each to their own. :wink:

 

[malcolm]

What silly things to collect - none of those things would be at all useful for unblocking drains.

I have spied some new patches of new concrete near where drain access might have been. I'll need access through the area at the weekend for the great kitchen move then will dig them up to see if anything useful beneath.

 

[Lime]

Most of the sinks in the house empty into a single hopper outside the kitchen which is currently blocked. The hopper is concrete so might not be all that period, however there is a cast iron hopper which drains into it from the first floor so there must be some age. From the position of the drain I would guess an age range between 1830 and 1910 for the ceramic drain itself.

The problem is the drain has a U bend and then continues towards a sewer pipe about 2m away. The blockage is past the U bend. There is a yard drain about 2m on the other side of the sewer which is also blocked. I would have expected to find a convenient inspection cover where the two meet the sewer but there is none, and it is awfully difficult to rod around a U bend especially when the chief suspect for the problem is a tree.

Did they not bother putting inspection chambers in back then and how did they clear the drains? Or is it likely I might find one by chipping off a little concrete from the yard? I think I will have to do some digging whatever happens to rod the drains and insert an inspection chamber but this isn't the ideal time of year for doing that.

Pre the 1960s it was relatively unusual to have manholes/inspection chambers except where the house had an interceptor and/or where the house sewage pipe approached the main sewer in the road.
I can remember a lot of houses that had none at all.
(or they had been lost and forgotten about)
If the builder was moderately conscientious another would be provided near the kitchen sink and/or toilet.
Blocked pipes/drains created the need for a manhole/inspection chamber to be put in, so that the blockage could be sorted, hence why old drainage systems often have them in odd places, sometimes almost next to each other.

I recall the house my sister bought in Taplow in the 1980s had three large manholes within a couple of feet of one another.
They were found hidden under a shingle path that I was digging up.
Judging by the age of the manhole covers they were put in at different times presumably because no one knew of the previous manhole's existence when another blockage occurred.

 

[Penners]

If the builder was moderately conscientious

IF.... it's such a big word!

 

[malcolm]

Thanks Lime, I don't know the age of the system but it might well be more modern than I thought. The sewer falls at around 1 in 100 at the rear of the house which is annoying, but is much steeper at the side of the house. The pipe at the rear might be a compromised add-on. There are manholes at a bend from the downstairs toilets, one below the upstairs toilet, none visible at the kitchen waste and yard drain which may have staggered connections into the main pipe, one at the next corner, then nothing in the steep fall to the main sewer.

The 1910 drain pipes appear to have drained into a completely different pipe which headed off across the road. If the current system is more modern there might be a chance of finding something sensible hiding under the concrete. Otherwise I will dig a hole and make it more maintainable.

The gents urinals are also blocked which is an annoyance as they have a cast iron U bend under the floor with no obvious rodding point. I've removed one layer of tiles to see if there is a rodding point. I'll remove the next layer of tiles and dig down a little. Otherwise either the access is buried under the study carpet or the builders couldn't be bothered.

 

[Zebra]

What fun you're having malcolm. Sounds great!

 

[malcolm]

I'm living the dream Zebra. The place alreafy works a lot better than the previous rental and is a lot of fun. Do come over and visit. Bring a shovel.

 

[MatthewC]

I recall the house my sister bought in Taplow in the 1980s had three large manholes within a couple of feet of one another.
They were found hidden under a shingle path that I was digging up.
Judging by the age of the manhole covers they were put in at different times presumably because no one knew of the previous manhole's existence when another blockage occurred.

Priceless! :lol:

 

[chuckey]

Have you tried one of those spring type unblockers, they are a bit weedy but might help. FWI I had a manhole tarmaced over (under a garden path) and a manhole blocked with a bit of 3/4" thick slate. My house had about 100' between a manhole and the next manhole and no man hole on a branch (until I put one in).
Frank

 

[Longdogs]

I found my inspection chamber in the brick shed (possibly an old outside toilet). Half of the cover is in my shed and the other half in my neighbour's shed with a dividing wall across the middle of it. :shock:

 

[chuckey]

Not quite as bad as that, the man hole that I use and is 100' from the house, is exactly under the garden fence. It has a 4' gulley and a 6' outlet. The 4' pipe points directly to the centre of my neighbours lawn, where I presume my drain joins her's then down to the end of the garden. This is where I suspect the thick bit of slate came from, over the man hole under her lawn. Well ten years later and her lawn has not fallen in.
Frank

 

[malcolm]

I've decided to dig up the whole kitchen drain and reposition it a little lower with a new manhole (assuming none turn up under the concrete). The current drain is above internal floor level and having moved the kitchen out of the way it is wet inside.

The kitchen is a state having suffered from high external ground levels, leaky gutter, stolen flashing, rotten window, leaky pipes, holes in the wall and impervious materials inside and out. At least the plaster is easy to remove.

 

[Penners]

At least the plaster is easy to remove.

Yup - one loud sneeze should bring the whole lot down!

 

[MatthewC]

The kitchen is a state having suffered from high external ground levels, leaky gutter, stolen flashing, rotten window, leaky pipes, holes in the wall and impervious materials inside and out. At least the plaster is easy to remove.

It's good that you can look on the bright side - I was just wondering if there was anything else that the old kitchen could have suffered from!

 

[malcolm]

I was just wondering if there was anything else that the old kitchen could have suffered from!

Well it was jerry built by Georgians as a two story structure with no foundations incorporating part of an earlier outbuilding. Then things went downhill. It isn't the best bit of the house. The plaster wasn't easy to remove after all - there was some red plaster that stuck very well to the bricks. Possibly a tanking plaster.

I did find a feature at floor level which looks like the top of a brick arch with a row of header bricks above. I've been looking for the cellar, but it looks like the kitchen floor was lowered at some point so I probably don't have one any more.

 

[MatthewC]

I did find a feature at floor level which looks like the top of a brick arch with a row of header bricks above. I've been looking for the cellar, but it looks like the kitchen floor was lowered at some point so I probably don't have one any more.

If there are signs of some extra foundations (i.e. more than none) under the ends of that arch, then it could be just a stress relieving arch, as some compensation for the lack of foundations. I have at least one in the bedroom wall above the gap for the bay window in the lounge beneath, and it was someone here who told me what it was, about five years ago.

There's another in a wall in my garden where they bridged over a well!

 

[Penners]

it could be just a stress relieving arch

Ah... so that young lady was just offering to build me an arch. I thought she meant something entirely different.