Off Topic - The Mid-Life Crisis and it's practical application

[Zebra]

Look, I'm really sorry, but once again, can we all stop please with these assumptions that women = shopping, sparkly things and chivvying men into things they don't want to do, and men = social avoidance, practical things and being harried by women. It's not that I'm personally upset because I'm female, practical and hate shopping. I just find all these stereotypes about gender so limiting. It's like saying "black people are xyz" or "gay people are this and that..."
I dunno, I'll shut up and go away.

 

[Feltwell]

I dunno, I'll shut up and go away.

Zebra, please don't shut up or go away! I would sincerely hope from my posts that you would not gather the opinion or assumption that women = shopping and sparkly things, as it's one that I very, very much do not hold. *Some* women of course do love shopping and sparkly things, but then so do some men. Each to their own, if they enjoy it then good for them.

I *have* posted about me conforming to the male stereotype of hatred of shopping - because I do. That absolutely does not mean that I think all women love shopping! Or for that matter that all men hate it. Other male stereotypes:-

• "Boys toys" - motorbikes and cars in particular - guilty as charged in my case, in fact very guilty. Doesn't mean that women can't have them. Mrs F has a bike licence, which I am guilty of encouraging her to get. I seem to remember you have a licence as well - for a zebra-striped GPz500 if my ailing memory is correct?
• Football - can't stand it, bores me to tears. Not fussed about Rugby, Golf or Fishing either. Annoys me that some think that every bloke must like football.
• Children - I love kids! Babies and toddlers especially!! And they, generally, love me. I'm the one who makes a beeline to play with the little ones, Mrs F can't stand them, she only does kids over 10 years old. The stereotype that only women can deal with little ones really annoys me, or far, far worse that there is something a bit creepy about any man who can relate to little kids. Kids are great fun. But not for everyone.
• "Macho" - I hate, with a vengeance, all male macho environments. Toxic.

Everyone is an individual, to conform to a stereotype or not is a choice.

 

[Zebra]

OK, I get that those aren't your attitudes Feltwell, but what you said is "my local shopping centre is admittedly quite well set up for the middle aged male" - meaning that is has a means of escape from the "untold horrors of the wider shopping centre" - the assumption being that only males would need to escape from the shopping. Why not "well set up for those who hate shopping?" Why the suggestion that it is males who feel that way?

Look, it's actually a reflection on what a safe space this forum is for me that I feel I can call out such comments. I grew up being belittled for being a girl, and then working on construction sites for 10 years I obviously experienced much much worse than a few gentle jokes about shopping, and never ever called it out because that wouldn't have gone well for me. So to an extent you've all borne the brunt of a reaction that has its roots elsewhere, which I'm sorry for.

 

[Feltwell]

OK, I get that those aren't your attitudes Feltwell, but what you said is "my local shopping centre is admittedly quite well set up for the middle aged male" - meaning that is has a means of escape from the "untold horrors of the wider shopping centre" - the assumption being that only males would need to escape from the shopping. Why not "well set up for those who hate shopping?" Why the suggestion that it is males who feel that way?

On reflection I'm playing up to a stereotype that happens to be true for me - and you're right to call out that it's inappropriate, mild & gentle or not, so I apologise for no offence was ever intended.

No one should be belittled for their gender. My background was also construction, heavy civil engineering in my case, which I got out of years ago, partly because it was such a toxic macho environment. You're the only female electrician that I've ever come across - which is just daft, why should that be the case?

 

[Cubist]

After Zebras initial complaint on the topic at hand, and thinking that perhaps my post concerning a possible shed name may have contributed to, or perhaps caused, the discomfort she reported, I decided to take a few steps back to fully reflect on my own culpability. It may come as no surprise but in one of my earliest Staff Appraisals I was described as both 'brusque' and 'Tiggerish'. Those observations have stuck in my mind for far longer than I care to remember. Not because I found them in any way offensive and demeaning but simply because they betrayed an unexpected level of perspicacity and understanding in my assessors thinking. I am, and always have been, rather abrupt in my responses, to many if not all with whom I interact. Oftentimes I will try to leaven my words with sometimes poor attempts at humour and occasionally these have been known to cause offence; not least when they press upon personal or social boundaries. Possibly, my offering of 'And Here Be Dragons' as a possible name for a woman's shed crossed such a line and led to the upset.

In my own defence I can honestly say there was no malicious or demeaning intent. It was an off the cuff, and ill considered statement, and if it genuinely caused any hurt then I apologise unreservedly.

That said Zebra, and I hope you'll forgive the pun, but sometimes the words we all publish here are not quite as black and white as they may seem. I cannot promise to always be politically correct in my future communications but I will try to be a little more aware that my choice of words may be painful for some. I do hope that you will not withdraw from this forum as a result of my indiscretion.

 

[LadyArowana]

I grew up being belittled for being a girl, and then working on construction sites for 10 years I obviously experienced much much worse than a few gentle jokes about shopping, and never ever called it out because that wouldn't have gone well for me. So to an extent you've all borne the brunt of a reaction that has its roots elsewhere, which I'm sorry for.

That’s a sad reflection on those people who did that. I’m curious as to whether you felt there was correlation between the level of competence/ insecurity of folks and their attitude. I’ve very limited experience, but it always seemed to be the ‘not so good at their job’ ones who wanted to be obnoxious.

 

[Zebra]

That’s a sad reflection on those people who did that. I’m curious as to whether you felt there was correlation between the level of competence/ insecurity of folks and their attitude. I’ve very limited experience, but it always seemed to be the ‘not so good at their job’ ones who wanted to be obnoxious.

No. You get arseholes (and idiots) in all walks of life. Some people just like to cause upset. It gives them a kick .

 

[philpjuk100]

Well done! I was forced to do it by redundancy but picked up a part time job, it was lovely, less money but a job I would have paid to do!, it was like a club, only eight of us, no rules, no demarcation ( did everything from entertaining customers to painting the window frames!) flexible hours, great boss. The money is less important as you get older and the kids become independent "ish" I am sure you will never regret doing it.

 

[Feltwell]

That’s a sad reflection on those people who did that. I’m curious as to whether you felt there was correlation between the level of competence/ insecurity of folks and their attitude. I’ve very limited experience, but it always seemed to be the ‘not so good at their job’ ones who wanted to be obnoxious.

No. You get arseholes (and idiots) in all walks of life. Some people just like to cause upset. It gives them a kick .

I agree with both of you. To answer LadyA, I have without question seen and dealt with some very senior figures in well-known companies who use aggression as a way to cover up their own lack of ability and insecurities. I heard a very apt description once for a senior exec within Tesco - "He's a well balanced chap, he's got chips on both shoulders".

But, to agree with Zebra, you get arseholes who just like to be obnoxious, rude and destructive at all levels. It makes them feel self-important.

 

[Feltwell]

Well done! I was forced to do it by redundancy but picked up a part time job, it was lovely, less money but a job I would have paid to do!, it was like a club, only eight of us, no rules, no demarcation ( did everything from entertaining customers to painting the window frames!) flexible hours, great boss. The money is less important as you get older and the kids become independent "ish" I am sure you will never regret doing it.

That's what I'm hoping for Phil. Might mean I need to do a few more years before retirement, *but* this should stop the "cliff-edge" of retirement - no reason why I can't run this at a low level eventually, it can become a holiday fund provider rather than a source of living income. In the meantime, if I can get flexible hours and make work fit around life rather than the other way round, and not get stressed out doing so, then that has to be better for me.