No more placcy?

[Manks]

Something simple, wood and non - polluting.

I'd try really hard to not be part of the problem. I'd seek some other solution.

Lets see some pictures and prices then Nemesis.

 

[Nemesis]

Mnaks - I can't believe you are fitting these, and you should feel shame. But clearly not. It's a living I suppose.

What the f*ck are you putting them in?

 

[skier-hughes]

Oh, shoot em.

Come on, be serious, how would you stop people from using polluting products on the windows you've installed in the house they've bought.

 

[Nemesis]

Graham - I can't stop the world from being stupid, but I hoped that some who posted here might try REALLY HARD to be part of the solution.

You don't fit these doors too I hope.

 

[Manks]

You been drinking Nemesis?

The spelling is going and you are becoming even more abusive.

In all seriousness, are you sure that YOU aren't part of the problem? Just another ecomentalist with a poor grasp of the facts and an even poorer grip on reality?

 

[biffvernon]

Here you go Nemesis.

http://www.basfordtrade.com/

Which is the one that cost £200?

(Not that I'd want any of them if they paid me the £200)

 

[skier-hughes]

But isn't putting in wood that people then paint with polluting products adding to the problem? Just in a different way?

I am using wood, I'm using linseed oil based paints, I hope to be here for a good number of years and after I'm gone I can but hope the next resident looks after the place like I'm doing.

Mank's situation is totally different though, the houses aren't neccesarily old/period/listed and unfortunately price is such a deciding factor for first time buyers.
Anyway, biff says that if we don't use oil to make plastic windows then someone else will just use it anyway, so we may as well deplete the resource and then make nice eco friendly windows which won't get painted nastily.

 

[Nemesis]

Abusive?

Just telling it like it is, dear boy.

The spelling is going, thankfully, along with my failing eyesight, so I won't have to look at the crap you seem to be inflicting on the environment.

Reality? Well, sure, I live in the unreal world, the one where it's OK to be clever and care what our environment is like, care what buildings look like, but I'm not alone. Some of us care you see, even if it's old fashioned.

Clearly you don't.

I agree Biff. Awful.



[Open Image] [Hosted by PhotoGalaxy.com]



http://www.georgiangroup.org.uk/docs/cases/index.php?id=3:62:0:0

 

[Manks]

You see you live in a world where everyone lives in Georgian houses and people like me are messing them up with plastic windows. It is not the case. I would not put plastic in a quality period house. I would put nothing else in cheap stock.

Let them eat cake eh Nemesis.

Manks

 

[Nemesis]

No, let them have something simple, decent and made of wood. The cost difference at one a month I doubt is much. Set an example.

Don't make the mistake of thinking I was born with a silver spoon and live in palatial splendour. I don't. But I care about my environment, I care about buildings, great and small, as with Pathfinder, and I care about design.

And until I am nailed down in my coffin I will continue to do what I can to rail against the Philistines who spoil things. I am sorry you are part of the problem, and aren't looking, as some others are, to be part of any solution.

Pile 'em high. Flog 'em cheap. Makes cash and to hell with it.

so we may as well deplete the resource and then make nice eco friendly windows which won't get painted nastily.

Graham - which are the nice eco friendly windows?

The uPVC?

 

[Manks]

So come on Nemesis. You've been critical of UPVC, telling me that I should not be using it, you have been asked twice to show us a comparable product in wood - i.e. cost-effective and low maintenance. Thus far we haven't seen anything.

Manks

 

[skier-hughes]

so we may as well deplete the resource and then make nice eco friendly windows which won't get painted nastily.

Graham - which are the nice eco friendly windows?

The uPVC?

Sorry, I thought you'd already said that wood was more eco friendly, and as we would be out of oil they couldn't paint them in oil based paint either could they? I was also insinuating by that time we may have developed something else.

 

[plumbers mate]

>> cost-effective and low maintenance.

In the long term, wood is cost effective.
If plastic is low maintenance, why can you buy paint especially for them, and why are there window cleaners' vans with "We also wash uPVC frames" on the sides?
Why are so many a sickly pale yellow where cream paint on wood would be more pleasing?

 

[Nemesis]

So how much are wooden windows Manks? You must have costed them up surely? In order that you could count your beans?

Cost effective - the wider environmental costs don't count I gather. Nor does the ugliness of them.

It's about your profit.

Yup PM - they aren't low maintenance, but once installed the developer won't care.

But clearly a bit of maintenance evetry now and again isn't what is required today.

William Morris must be revolving in his grave.

"stave off decay by daily care, to prop a perilous wall or mend a leaky roof". ...

http://www.spab.org.uk/html/media-centre/press-releases/press-release/GriffRhysJonesLeadsSPABs2007NationalMaintenanceWeekCampaign.html?ContentID=61&PHPSESSID=2c514b3df205


http://www.btinternet.com/~coltdesign/house/urban.htm


http://www.woodforgood.com/

 

[elm]

Well, we have those really horrible sweaty mouldy placcy top openers as pictured above - old (haha, all of twenty+ years) - all the glazing units have failed (it'll be nice to actually see through the glass) and most have only one remaining closing handle .... hmmm. New sash windows are stored safely as we await better weather to install.

Cost? Around £1600 for five sashes and two casements knowledgeably made (softwood - we sand, paint, glaze and install). Simply the result of having the time to get to know people.

Not everyone has the time or patience I know - deadlines, profit etc. etc.

 

[Nemesis]

Oh, I doubt Manks is interested, it was mostly an excuse to have a go at me, and Biff, thinly disguised as humour, whom he took umbrage with over being told MDF was a toxic material to use. So he's decided to be the site comedian. I blame the fumes from his newly installed fireplace. I presume he's burning serfs. I gave up on that, found they didn't contain enough fat to make a worthwhile blaze.

Would like to see these windows in a building then Manks?

 

[skier-hughes]

and why are there window cleaners' vans with "We also wash uPVC frames" on the sides?

Why? Perhaps because as the windows get dirty so do the frames, so the cleaner advertises another service, it's called good marketing. No doubt they charge extra for it.

My wooden frames get just as dirty as the windows.

all the glazing units have failed

Do you not think that the same double glazed units would not have failed at the same time in wooden windows? Better quality units may have lasted longer, but the person who bought them obviously chose on a price point.

 

[Moo]

I'm with Nemesis on this subject, wholeheartedly.

I'm no expert (on anything, actually) but I think that were I to be building a house to a very tight budget I'd find the extra cash to put in wooden windows somehow, by cutting down on easily upgraded details.

On the other hand, the little 2-up 2-down that I have rented out for the past twelve years had its sashes removed by some previous owner. Not just the sashes, but the whole caboosh - windowsills and all. I'd love to replace them, but the cost is just too much to make it an economic proposition for me now, so I shall continue to patch them up for as long as I can.

When the time comes I shall bite on the financial bullet and have the job done properly, but if I were a cash-strapped first-time-buyer there would be no question of reinstating the sashes; it would have to be the cheapest placcies I could find.

 

[Moo]

PS

In the long term, wood is cost effective.
If plastic is low maintenance, why can you buy paint especially for them, and why are there window cleaners' vans with "We also wash uPVC frames" on the sides?
Why are so many a sickly pale yellow where cream paint on wood would be more pleasing?

With my Devil's Advocate hat on, I suppose it could be argued that if a pair of windows (one wooden, one placcy) were to be totally neglected for the same length of time there is every chance that the wooden one would have deteriorated much more than the placcy one.

 

[Nemesis]

Unlikely. And far easier to repair.