New windows for a grade 2 cottage

[Penners]

If you could give one-word answers to the following questions, I'd be very grateful and might even be able to help.

1. Do you have Listed Building Consent for the work?
1a. If "yes", did the details you submitted show single glazing, or double glazing, or neither?
1b. Were those details approved as part of your Listed Building Consent?

2. Do you have Building Regulations Consent for the work?
2a. Did the details submitted for Building Regulations match those (if any) submitted and approved for Listed Building Consent?

3. Has the work been done in accordance with the details submitted for whatever consent you have?

 

[Gareth Hughes]

garath

I have breached my consent, as I have installed Double glazing.

No mention of the windows in the consent, as all details previously sent.

Further letter from the council after consent was granted with caveats adhered too; stated they wanted further window details of the windows previously sent in.

I had proceeded on the consent 2-month prior, engaged with building regs, and installed the wood casements with “Double glazing as per building regs.

Now is there any reason why the CO would do this, and is there any backup for me to justify the Double glazed units

You don't seem to want to answer my simple "yes or no" questions (and believe m, life would be so much easier if you would), but, IF I am understanding you correctly, you have never applied for, or been given, Listed Building Consent for double glazing - you were asked to provide those details as a condition of the general LBC for the overall package of works you are doing, but you did not actually provide those details before going ahead and installing double glazing.

As the building is Listed, there is an exemption to the usual Building Regulations Part L rules in order that double glazing need not be fitted.

If the above is a correct assessment of what has happened, then I'm afraid the CO is right and you don't have recourse to any action against him.

 

[Schoolmarm]

David, Gareth is a CO.

You are really lucky to be talking to him.

Please answer his questions as requested with one word answers then you can get onto explaining things and perhaps move on to a solution.

I know it is frustrating but the full facts are needed.

 

[DJN]

Gareth

You are fairly right, however I was asked for drawings after consent was given and I had done the work.

The documents were sent in prior to consent, being given.

the fact that this further request was 2 months after consent was granted.

 

[Moo]

David, I'd be the first to agree that I'm one of the dimmer members of the forum, but I still don't understand.

You keep talking about 'consent' being given, but we still don't know what sort of consent it you mean.

Did you get Listed Building consent, or some other sort?

 

[MdB]

There is planning consent, building control consent and listed building consent. Which one did you get? What did it actually say?

 

[DJN]

Im confused now too
I have breached my consent, as I have installed Double glazing not previously stated or requested by any one only the government and Building regs.

I was granted consent in October with caveats i.e. not doing any wood frame repairs without 7 days notice.
No further mention of the windows in the consent application, apart from wooden single casements, which was as per conversation with the lazy CO – who I complained about to his boss.

All details sent in with application and further conversations e.g. 1:5 drawings of how the windows are made; all details previously sent.

Further letter from the council after consent was granted with caveats all adhered too; stated they wanted further window details.

I had proceeded on the consent 2-month prior, engaged with building regs, and installed the wood casements with “Double glazing as per building regs.

Now am I up the creak without the paddle or is there any backup for me to justify the Double glazed units not told by the useless CO that I could not install.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

May I express the (possibly forlorn) hope that next time you are all cursing your local CO, you'll bear in mind that the quality of information that the original poster has supplied - and his level of understanding of what the issues are - are far from being unusual.

If I hadn't spent the afternoon trying to understand what he was on about, I'd have spent the afternoon trying to understand what someone else was on about.

I still can't tell whether the first time the council asked for details of the windows was after (rather than as part of) the grant of consent. And to be honest, I don't care anymore.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

All details sent in with application and further conversations e.g. 1:5 drawings of how the windows are made; all details previously sent.

RIGHT. One last try.

Did the 1:5 drawings of how the windows were to be made show double glazing, or single glazing?

 

[Nemesis]

The lazy CO - who may have been so overworked trying to understand what it was all about, alongside a huge pile of other applications of similar ilk, that maybe he wasn't so much lazy as buried?

 

[Gareth Hughes]

The lazy CO - who may have been so overworked trying to understand what it was all about, alongside a huge pile of other applications of similar ilk, that maybe he wasn't so much lazy as buried?

More likely the CO who couldn't work out what the heck Mr Norris was going on about.

 

[skier-hughes]

Im confused now too
I have breached my consent, as I have installed Double glazing not previously stated or requested by any one only the government and Building regs.

I was granted consent in October with caveats i.e. not doing any wood frame repairs without 7 days notice.
No further mention of the windows in the consent application, apart from wooden single casements,

This to me says you didn't have consent to replace windows, so you are up the creek without a paddle.

As mentioned by others there are several departments for listed buildings and some have more power to impose conditions than others, which is to ensure that owners do right by their older properties.

I wanted to instal single glazing, but as the property is 600 years old but not listed Building control had the last say. If it had been listed, then I'd have had to replace/fit new with similar windows to those that I was replacing.

Personally I think you need to take a break from it, then work on building bridges with your CO, so that you can move forward. Learn from this costly mistake and perhaps do some more reading on what you can and cannot do to your building before proceeding and follow this up with an in-depth chat with the CO on site explaining what you'd like to do and get his opinions while he is there.

Show you mean business, that you want to learn and understand and hopefully you'll be able to move forward as a partnership rather than a divorcing couple!!

 

[Moo]

But before you follow that excellent advice,

Please -

Put us out of our collective misery and

Tell us whether or not you had LISTED BUILDING consent.

 

[biffvernon]

Oh dear, oh dear. David has helpfully sent me some photos of the house - but they are in a composite form on a pdf and I can't work out how to extract the pictures, re-file them as jpegs and then post them here.

I was, however, right in thinking that a picture is worth a thousand words. David, (sitting down?) you're not going to like this. I can't imagine any Conservation Officer allowing those windows in a listed 17th century cottage. And they wouldn't even pass Buildings Regulations as the casements open on to a public footpath and thus constitute a hazard.

And you really should have taken Midi's advice ages ago and not stuck concret blockwork where timber frame should be.

Sorry.

 

[DJN]

Good reply
However
the usless CO who couldent get off his arse and off his desk and look at the documents that accompanied the application, or visit site without being forced too by his boss, had a panic on after planning granted me consent based on my application for windows and work inside.

The replaced windows are as the Parish Council "sympathetic" as the previous windows were 70s shop fronts.

So you think it is acceptable to apply for consent be told its been rejected becouse you have not had time to go through the documents or visit site.

Then issue a conset to proceed 6 months after application, then follow up with further issue 2 further months later.

 

[Penners]

May I express the (possibly forlorn) hope that next time you are all cursing your local CO...

A touch of paranoia, there Gareth? :wink:

I suggest this thread is ample evidence that the curses may travel in substantial numbers in the opposite direction!

 

[Nemesis]

Well we only have one side of this, the CO may have something different to say, so no I don't think anyone can make any comment on that.

But what on earth has the Parish Council to do with it? they have no say on planning issues - or none which count.

If they are anything like mine they wouldn't know an astragal from their a.... rear ends.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Good reply
However
the usless CO who couldent get off his arse and off his desk and look at the documents that accompanied the application, or visit site without being forced too by his boss, had a panic on after planning granted me consent based on my application for windows and work inside.

The replaced windows are as the Parish Council "sympathetic" as the previous windows were 70s shop fronts.

So you think it is acceptable to apply for consent be told its been rejected becouse you have not had time to go through the documents or visit site.

Then issue a conset to proceed 6 months after application, then follow up with further issue 2 further months later.

But none of that has anything to do with whether your windows actually have consent or not.

 

[MdB]

Oh dear, oh dear. David has helpfully sent me some photos of the house - but they are in a composite form on a pdf and I can't work out how to extract the pictures, re-file them as jpegs and then post them here.

I've sent you a PM on this.

 

[Penners]

the usless CO who couldent get off his arse and off his desk and look at the documents that accompanied the application

David

By now it may have started to dawn on you that haven't gathered around you a particularly sympathic audience here.

Speaking for myself, I have often found that people who describe their CO in terms such as yours are people who have flouted the Listed Building Consent system and found themselves in trouble as a result. Either that, or they've applied for consent to do something destructive to listed building and been refused.

If you're looking for advice then - against all odds - you've had a fair bit of it above. If you're looking for sympathy, then you're bashing your head against a brick wall.

Honestly - I should stop.