My house wants its fields back

[Penners]

Very timely indeed - tonight we have the first official meeting of C.A.W.D. (the Committee of Angry Walkers and Dogs) to plan our strategies of resistance against development. It will be useful to trot out those terms; I'd better practise.

My position with C.A.W.D. is delicate, I'm against any change of use, except for the bit I want to buy! And they know I have a cat.

As Schoolmarm says, I'd have thought that the CAWD would be enthusiastic about your buying part of the land.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Thanks for your wonderful help with images and computers MdB.

CAWD are not enthusiastic about my purchase at all. I had to tell a room of 20 people that I couldn't join their campaign to get the unofficial footpaths made official, and I would fence them out, (apart from the official footpath of course, and I told them I'd make a nice access point along the bottom of my new field). They were not impressed. The clerk of the Parish Council is going to oppose it. He said it has been used as common land for at least 100 years.

Marm - yes- sheep - but it's the footpath issue, not the sheep.

Actually, CAWD are against everything peopel would wnat to do with the land they buy: fences, motorbikes, caravans, horses, hens, tree felling. They're all off to get Tree Preservation notices served.

Time for a poem.

http://www.bartleby.com/104/64.html

 

[vicky whitworth]

Hi Jose, this all sounds a nightmare for you. I hate land disputes. We have a similar issue near us where dog walkers use a field owned by the lady who used to live in our cottage. They never stick to the one footpath.

Your point about common land was the one I wanted to ask about here. What does 'common land' mean? I sort of understood that there is no such thing. All land is owned by someone although in some cases the ownership is not known - lost in the mists of time. And that certain rights in law may have been granted for access and use of the land eg: in the New Forest the commoners have certain rights but those rights are rights in law. So I suppose I'm asking, 'Am I right in thinking that there is no such thing as common land in the sense that anyone can traipse over it where ever they want unless they have been given legal rights to do so? And how does that fit with the law about access to the countryside?
Thanks.

 

[TimM]

If they've used it for a set period (20 years or more) of time for recreation without the landowner's permission they may be able to claim that it's a village green. http://www.eastsussex.gov.uk/community/townsvillages/villagegreens/default.htm

 

[Flyfisher]

I think there's also a mechanism to establish a public right of way of it can be proven that a path has been used, unchallenged, for a certain period of time. 20 years perhaps?

Joce, your council should have a 'footpaths officer'. I met with ours when I was doing some fencing and wanted to verify the exact location of a footpath across our field. She was very helpful indeed and I dicovered that the current route of the path that has been used for many years (and is waymarked and regularly cut by the council) does not corresponed exactly to the definitive map.

Although this is not an issue, indeed the correct route would be mildly more inconvenient, it was explained that officially changing the definitive map to match the current path would be a long formal process and likely to cost a few thousand pounds. I was also told that applications to re-route footpaths often attracted objections from "zealots" (not my description) from all over the country who oppose any changes out of principle.

There are ways, however, in which the establishment of a public right of way over prvate land can be prevented. One of these, perversely, is to actually grant permission for public access, which can then be revoked at any time you wish. I believe most shopping centres use this method and you sometimes see a notice confirming that it's private property but that public access is hereby granted, or words to that effect.

Needless to say, proper legal advice could be a worthy investment - especially if there's a risk of multiple footpaths being granted in the future, after you've bought the land.

You might want to consider joining the CLA. They claim to offer legal advice and assistance on all sorts of land-related matters and might be able to help. I used to be a member but I have to say they were not too responsive when I asked them about our footpath; the council footpaths officer was actually more helpful. You'll get free tickets for The Game Fair though, with priority parking and access to the member's enclosure for an un-crowded sit-down and a cream tea. :wink:

 

[JoceAndChris]

How very soothing a cream tea sounds! Thanks FF, that's right up my street, and a very helpful post to boot. I have been in touch with the local footpaths officer and as you say they were very helpful (thoughcharging me £35 for a search - a small price to pay to find out the exact footpaths)

And thanks everyone else too - yes, you are all correct in your thoughts, as far as I'm aware.

Vicky - proper, legal common land in which historically Joe Bloggs was allowed to keep his milk cow is very rare. Port Meadow in Oxford springs to mind, I don't think anyone can buy it, or build on it, ever.

But there must be vast tracts of unofficial "common" land across the country, land unfarmed or undeveloped for whatever reason, which the public enjoy. In my case the fields below the house used to be used for grazing -even in living memory- for the residents of this house. That's why there's a ha-ha in the garden, above the field we're buying. The lack of access to these fields really has meant that they've stayed undeveloped, and for the last 25 years no grazing has taken place. I learned only this week that the previous owner of my house made the track leading to the house and fields in 1988, before that it was a rough dirt path. The residents of our cottage went into town to collect their post in the 70s, (they had a Land-Rover apparently) there were no oil deliveries, the cottage was lit with candles, heated by wood fire, and the water was pumped by hand-pump from the well.

The previous owner undertook the Herculean challenge of making a road, digging a trench down to town for electricity, sorting out better pumping and plumbing and setting the cottage straight. All DIY - an amazing man.

But, by creating the kind of access to the cottage that an oil tanker can come up the previous owner has also made the fields more attractive for purchasers. The "common" land that the townspeople have been enjoying will change, regardless of my bit of fencing. It's a very large piece of land, around 50 acres, and the others who are buying other bits are unlikely to bear in mind, for example, how much that slope is used for toboganning and sledging in the winter, or picnics in the summer. Everyone will want to fence off their section, and I'm confident will have a right to do so if it came to a legal battle.

Whether I face a legal battle or not, or even will be allowed to fence it or not, I think we absolutely must buy it. It's right below the drawing room window, it's our daily view. If I don't buy it someone else will, and I might not like what they do with it.

 

[Schoolmarm]

""Good fences make good neighbors"


True and not only keeps stock in it also helps to mark the boundary/ownership.


CAWD need to buy up the remaining land I think.

 

[MdB]

"Good fences make good neighbors"

We have had cows in our back garden 3 times now. When you have soft clay ground, this isn't a good thing.

 

[JoceAndChris]

:shock: How are the flower beds?

CAWD need to buy up the remaining land I think.

I agree. I think they've lost a sense of proportion on this. To expect to have access, to enjoy the footpaths and views and amenity of the land is one thing - and something I'll campaign for alongside them if we really do face the threat of a large development.

But to expect to have 50 acres as your free playground, hmmm - the world's too busy and crowded for that these days, even in Lincollnshire.

 

[Schoolmarm]

I agree 8)

 

[JoceAndChris]

It's ours - very nearly. We put the deposit down today. Beacon Cottage will sit in 4.5 acres, and no b*stard can erect anything right in front of my ha ha. Hurrah!

I can't believe it's a year since starting this thread!

 

[MdB]

<thumbs up mode on>

 

[Moo]

May I second the motion?

That is possibly one of the wisest things you and Chris have ever done, Joce. (Apart from getting married, and buying B*****C*****, of course).

 

[Flyfisher]

Congratulations Joce! Exciting times.

 

[Schoolmarm]

Awwww what wonderful news.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Thanks all! (and don't worry, it will be years before we can afford to fence it, so all the stories of the fluffy-wuffy curly-wurly ickle lambikins and bunnikins and doe-ikins who make their homes there will have to wait)

 

[Nigel Watts]

Well done! Having walked through it, I can confirm that it is a most delightful meadow.

 

[LadyArowana]

Thanks all! (and don't worry, it will be years before we can afford to fence it, so all the stories of the fluffy-wuffy curly-wurly ickle lambikins and bunnikins and doe-ikins who make their homes there will have to wait)

So pleased to hear you got it, well done, the house really deserves to sit in it's own protected space. I expect you will get some free bunnikins as a GWP even if not specifically mentioned in the contract.

 

[Carol]

Congrats! I hope you have as much joy as we do with our re-claimed bit (sold off from this in 1967 and bought back in 2008).
Yours looks lovely!

 

[Moo]

And, of course, you can now sound very grand indeed when you mention "my land", while the rest of us have to make do with "my garden".