Movie Time: The Age of Stupid

[worms]

Biff,

I agree with the point about burning coal and I don't yet believe the "clean coal" argument, so yes, I don't think they should build Kingsnorth (and I am not convinced by plans to co-fire with timber at Cockenzie and Longannet http://www.scottishpower.com/PressReleases_1572.htm; http://www.ieabcc.nl/meetings/task32_Glasgow_ws_ash/ScottishPower.pdf in inefficient power plants).

However, I feel that the issue has to come down to the personal level, it is easy to point to things that "they" should do, harder to make the changes in our own lives. I would argue that a national campaign to stop buying "stuff" (as you have put it in the past), particularly stuff that has very short life and has a high carbon cost in manufacture and transport would potentially make a couple of coal-fired power stations redundant, either here or in China.

And as I've argued before, I don't believe that the Government can be trusted to really reduce the country's carbon footprint rather than simply export the carbon production and keep the consumption. So to me the focus should be on convincing people to change their personal carbon consumption rather than make it all about any single point source of carbon release.

 

[Penners]

Biff - did you hear the piece on this morning's Radio 4 Today Programme? Quite a long feature (well, long by today's sound-byte standards) on Bio-Char. If you missed it I'm sure you could pick it up on Listen Again.

 

[Lime]

Making any sacrifice is just putting off the inevitable.
Man is breeding out of control and until that is dealt with everything else is just window dressing.
The Earth will still be here until the Sun devours it and we become star dust for the third time.

 

[yamin]

Don't sit on the fence, Lime, will you? Assume you don't have any children then?

 

[Pford75]

In the interests of balance, here's a slightly less positive review of the film...

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/6359/

 

[yamin]

Thank you thank you thank you!! Justified criticism or not, an alternative view - hurrah!!!!!!!!! (Not saying its your opinion Pford, just another opinion that is VERY welcomein this somewhat one sided debate! - Now someone can tell me its only one sided because the one side is RIGHT, yeah??)

 

[Pford75]

Not saying its your opinion Pford, just another opinion that is VERY welcomein this somewhat one sided debate! - Now someone can tell me its only one sided because the one side is RIGHT, yeah??)

I don't have an opinion on things like these anymore....just pointing out that there are at least two sides to most things.

So...don't shoot the messenger

 

[yamin]

I don't have an opinion on things like these anymore....just pointing out that there are at least two sides to most things.

So...don't shoot the messenger

No, exactly why I said what I did, I realise you were not expressing an opinion, but was glad that someone elses 'other' view had been linked, thanks.

 

[Schoolmarm]

If people "need" another POV so urgently, could they not use google?

 

[skier-hughes]

Same as If people "need" a POV so urgently, could they not use google?

 

[yamin]

Not sure its worth it. Seems only one opinion ALLOWED in this thread and there is no interest in any other side. Sorry, but I think I'd rather discuss all this in a place where balance is encouraged, rather than stamped out by louder (but not necessarily more correct) voices......

Ducking down to avoid the bullets...... :|

 

[skier-hughes]

We need both sides of the story, so people like me can make a decision.
Although I thought that report was about as balanced as some of the pro ones!!!!!
Which does nothing at all to help me decide, 'cos I just think they're all a load of **************************
So, I muddle on doing what I consider is the best I can do.

Although I'm with Lime in the: if humans are destroying the world, why do we allow so many new ones to be born.

Graham

 

[yamin]

Well said Graham, on the argument I mean.

Although I'm with Lime in the: if humans are destroying the world, why do we allow so many new ones to be born.

"Allow"? And how are all we folks (with children, a lot of us, I suspect) going to achieve this lowering of the birth rate? Who is going to wipe our bums when we're old and infirm, when the population is already top heavy at the aged end.......? Maybe we should 'crop spray' third world, high birth rate countries with contraceptive that can be breathed in.....? Any programme to encourage less conceptions would be taken up overwhelmingly more by those who are educated, whose in turn educated children we NEED for the future of the planet - those in the very poverty stricken and very low socio economic scales have always had lots of children and are unlikely to take up any incentive not to breed. So, do we introduce a big brother type policing of conception, ahem, activity? Cull a few? Or try to work on something that is not so patently doomed to failure? And again, forgive me, those of you who have CHOSEN not to have children, but for those of us who have, its easy to sit here with our genes passed on and then declare that no oe else must do it from now on etc..............

 

[skier-hughes]

Who said it was going to be easy, but if the choice is we all die or we do something about it, which do you choose?

Education would be a good place to start, maybe sending educated people out to the third world countries to help them to survive, so they didn't feel the need to conceive 20 children in the hope one or two will survive to wipe their bums.

I don't know what the answer is, but if all we keep hearing is humans are destroying the planet with their greed, it makes sense to me that the moe humans, the more greed the earlier the disaster appears? (simplified) :wink:

 

[yamin]

I cannot deny that to try and lessen the birth rate would be a good thing, and education might be a good place to start. As you say your argument (and mine) is simplified, but I do agree that that would be agood thing. However it HAS to go alongside with finding other ways to 'solve' this - no matter how right it MAY be to put it all down to people having too man children, it does not follow that the only way to put it right is by reversing that - the same saying that cars are destorying the planet - you cannot go 'backwards' - rather its better to go forward and look at making cars less harmful for the enviroment, rather than the hand wringing few doing without cars and trying to make everyone else do without them too! From that point of view an ongoing and massive education project might be a way forward, but not just a sweeping statement that 'people must stop breeding' (and I know you didn't say that, but many involved i this debate HAVE made unhelpful remarks along those lines).

 

[skier-hughes]

I think our hymn sheets have many similar words on them

 

[yamin]

Ha, me friend, I come in peace! :lol:

 

[skier-hughes]

But if you sing ike me we'll cull the population as they'll do it themsleves to stop hearing us :shock:

 

[Lime]

When people talk of a "good" thing they usually mean good for themselves their family, friends or mankind.
When the discussion is about what is good for the Earth then mankind, friends, family and ourselves may have very bad things to look forward to.
That is our quandary.
While children are seen as a valuable resource nothing will change.

 

[yamin]

But Lime, there is an obvious flaw in your logic - if we don't have children, we will die out anyway! And if we decide that yes, we need SOME children, who is going to make the decision about WHO can have those children? Does that not have a ring of nazi-ism about it? (I stress, you have NOT suggested this of course, I'm not accusing you) - it is indeed a quandary, but the answer, beyond encouraging less children and educating, does not lie in 'stopping people seeing children as a valuable resource'. One way, IF you are right, lies certain destruction of the earth and the human race, but by eliminating children you achieve the same thing! And once more, I would challenge you that if you have children, then restricting your view on this to saying people should not have children, is a prime example of pushing something that doesn't have any negative effect on your life, or involve YOU having to give something up. If you do not have children then of course you may push this view and feel vindicated for doing your bit!